That's not what Hamilton says. He prefers slight understeer.JimClarkFan wrote: In what respect? Hamilton is typically said to be 'oversteering' yet he is fine compared to his team mate.
That's not what Hamilton says. He prefers slight understeer.JimClarkFan wrote: In what respect? Hamilton is typically said to be 'oversteering' yet he is fine compared to his team mate.
Just_a_fan wrote:That's not what Hamilton says. He prefers slight understeer.JimClarkFan wrote: In what respect? Hamilton is typically said to be 'oversteering' yet he is fine compared to his team mate.
raymondu999 wrote:Here's something in the latest Autosport, combining an old interview with Clark & Hill Sr. then comparing to one with Button and Hamilton (asking the same questions)What’s your ideal car? Do you have a car to oversteer or understeer?
Jim Clark
Well, when I started I used to prefer an oversteering car. At first it was very difficult for me to drive a Lotus. It was fabulous to drive on tramlines, but as soon as you started to get the back out it became very twitchy. I feel that I can get somewhere near the limit with an oversteering car. Mind you, it mustn’t oversteer too much. As far as Formula 1 is concerned a slight tendency to understeer is probably a good thing, because understeer can be corrected without losing too much time, whereas correcting oversteer is liable to waste time.
Lewis Hamilton
Oversteer, good traction, anyone would think the same thing. I just quite like an oversteering car.
Graham Hill
Well, I think those days, the days of accepting a car as it is, are over. Practically all drivers have a different way of driving, so what is oversteer for one person can be understeer for another in the same car. Understeer and oversteer are mainly a function of the amount of power being used.
Early this year BRM did some testing at Zandvoort, and I tried Richie Ginther’s car. Richie was complaining of understeer, but I thought the car was oversteering. We were both right because we drive differently. On the whole I would like to think that I prefer a car with neutral characteristics. The whole basis of motor racing – the criterion of going round a circuit quickly – is the amount of power you can get on the road. If you have a chronic oversteering car, you have to lift off – otherwise the back will come round. In an understeering car you can kill a lot of the understeer by setting the car up and then putting the power on; this holds it in a power drift which in effect kills the understeer. But there are some corners which you just cannot get round without backing off and starting again.
I like to be able to set the car up at the entrance to a corner and go through the corner in a power drift. Nowadays I think it is essential for a driver to be able to set the car up for his own particular needs. I think the days have gone when a driver used to turn up, put his gloves and hat on, do a few laps and then go home. Nowadays a driver must make the car suit his style, because competition is so fierce that every little tenth is going to count.
I have kind if given up trying to figure out what people are doing in the car. The onboard videos and TV coverage only rarely make it obvious what a driver is doing. And then you have the often conflicting views of the drivers.raymondu999 wrote:I think Hamilton likes a pointy front - not "oversteering" per se. It may feel like oversteer to him, granted.
raymondu999 wrote:I think Hamilton likes a pointy front - not "oversteering" per se. It may feel like oversteer to him, granted.
You guys are getting it. Some extra emphasis of my own in one of those quotes.JimClarkFan wrote:One thing I do think though is that there are different types of oversteer.
Lots of people say this, but I have seen no evidence that this is true. What I see personally is power oversteer mid corner to get direction change with the EBD ensuring he eventually gets grip. You can hear it. I can't see anything fancy on entry, it is when he gets the power down mid corner to get direction change with the EBD making sure he finds grip on exit.raymondu999 wrote:I'd think the opposite - he uses rear instability on entry - which was why the ebd was perfect for him, because when you braked and were off the throttle he could more easily induce oversteer with the sudden loss of rear downforce.
I don't see instability either, I see manipulation of direction with power with EBD allowing him to find grip.n smikle wrote:Rear insrability and rb9 cannot be used in the same sentence lol. I have seen vettel overcome a sliding car due to over eagerness on corner exit but i wouldn't say that he had a car with tail happy characteristics, whether inherent or tuned in.
Lol @ bold.... sweet of courseJersey Tom wrote:raymondu999 wrote:I think Hamilton likes a pointy front - not "oversteering" per se. It may feel like oversteer to him, granted.You guys are getting it. Some extra emphasis of my own in one of those quotes.JimClarkFan wrote:One thing I do think though is that there are different types of oversteer.
Let's make it more general. Car handling isn't a blanket, binary 1 or 0 condition of "is oversteer" or "is understeer." It's not even a 1-d line or scale of how much or little OS/US you have. It's a broad spectrum and palette of all the different behaviors / motions / etc. a car can have.
The driver feels all these things, tries to find the right descriptive word(s), and that's what comes out of their mouth. What Driver A vs. Engineer B vs. Fan C associate with a generic and blanket term like "oversteer" can vary quite a bit. Yes there are some industry definitions and diagrams you can Google of what those things are, but they're just incomplete.
The "oversteer" or "understeer" thing to me would be like if a few people attend an eight course dinner, and at the end of it you ask each of them, "So was dinner sweet or sour?"
Exactly. That is a key point to understand. So already... where some might associate rear drifting with oversteer, we see that it's not the whole story.JimClarkFan wrote:Just because the rear was drifting doesn't mean it was unstable
The voice of reason speaking as usual.We shouldn't listen to drivers say oversteer or understeer and take it blindly as gospel. It is XX-ersteer, relative to that driver's preference, that day, in that car, in those tires, in that corner, in that track and, hell, in that set of rules.Jersey Tom wrote: Let's make it more general. Car handling isn't a blanket, binary 1 or 0 condition of "is oversteer" or "is understeer." It's not even a 1-d line or scale of how much or little OS/US you have. It's a broad spectrum and palette of all the different behaviors / motions / etc. a car can have.
Whose trace is whose?timbo wrote:Ferrari reveals telemetry
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/08/07/f ... ngaroring/
http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/09204
sadly, the image quality is not so great to read some of the traces, but still interesting info.