hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
OdinYggd
OdinYggd
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Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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autogyro wrote:I am sure you do not want me to go into the real reasons why we have not had a world system of electric road vehicles for the last 100 years do you.
It has nothing to do with technology of course.
I don't think it is even a conspiracy.

It is greed, pure and simple.

In order to support a fleet of electric vehicles, the power utilities would have to make significant upgrades to their infrastructure to handle the charging load. They have little incentive to do this, as it costs a lot of money to do and would take a big bite out of their precious bottom line.

The only time I've seen utilities upgrading their infrastructure at all is it is badly damaged by accidents or severe weather. During the recovery process they will sometimes install higher rated equipment than what was originally there, providing reserve capacity for later use. And even that is rare, with all the cost cutting going on they are more likely to downgrade lines that aren't being pushed to their limits.

There is one other thing to consider too. When you factor in the efficiency losses of distribution and conversion, especially the losses at the battery charger, you'll realize that an electric vehicle is only a fraction of efficiency that an internal combustion vehicle is able to do. Consider the entire system- from prime mover all the way to the road wheels before you label electric as more efficient than combustion. Before electric cars really do go bigtime, we need some seriously revolutionary improvements in batteries and chargers- or some radical new method of storing bulk electricity for long periods of time.

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Tim.Wright
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Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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OdinYggd wrote:
autogyro wrote:I am sure you do not want me to go into the real reasons why we have not had a world system of electric road vehicles for the last 100 years do you.
It has nothing to do with technology of course.
I don't think it is even a conspiracy.

It is greed, pure and simple.

In order to support a fleet of electric vehicles, the power utilities would have to make significant upgrades to their infrastructure to handle the charging load. They have little incentive to do this, as it costs a lot of money to do and would take a big bite out of their precious bottom line.
What you have described above is not greed...
Not the engineer at Force India

Agenda_Is_Incorrect
Agenda_Is_Incorrect
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Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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People have cerebral trips here

100 years ago my country didn't even have electricity almost everywhere, even big cities. Public lightning was available exclusively on the largest cities centres back then and that was all electricity we had. Most places were equal to that

100 years ago for electric cars... Shame there's no civilization that replaced Europe or the USA as world leaders, as people there from the last 40 years can't make any advancement that isn't pure babble and strange views who can't ever prove connected to reality. All we produce is cra* as opposed to advancement and always there's an excuse for the weak reasoning instead of actual reasoning (people call that lies in sane places...)

Back to the real subject, hydrogen combustion cars always made me interested. The energy total outcome may be bad, but at least they allow for clean exhaust emissions without all the problems EVs have as weight, lack of sound, low power et al

PS: The power utility/public utility part even reminds me why on my head I will never feel comfortable with EVs. EVs are public utility, government dependent from fabrication (huge costs) to use (power lines and compatible power grid). As someone said brilliantly, power grids and power utilities almost NEVER are expanded.

Government gets along with enterprises and what you have are nightmares George Orwell stile. They have the worst of everything. The control freak part of governments along with profit crazy enterprises. Even at the rise of a well needed expansion at public services/utilities, all they do is make nothing to expand the network (to avoid any extra costs at all) AND PULL COSTS TO THE CONSUMER SKY HIGH (to make people sacrifice and make the expansion "not needed").

We rather keep free and make some enterprises with oil/energy very powerful and wealthy than face the very real possibility of waking up, turning up the radio, and listen "today no car will be allowed as the power grid has been overloaded and no, we can't expand it because of some excuse as cost/green/save the world"

F*ck that. Actually, all that has so much power and greed around that we may never know the truth. As they don't let us know the truth, rather choose my "19th century" petroil burner. Who cares about some state/enterprise funded study that says earth collapses tomorrow for the 50th time

We should learn to ignore. Rational people don't keep buying every new product even if reason x, z and y are given. We shouldn't be forced to believe or buy into every new theory about energy or green or anything. No government is reliable. EU and USA are the "greatest" examples of government and they behave almost as tyrannies for the last 40 years - even for their own people

Not taxing, not funding, not believing ANY what they and the support enterprises/academy/universities say. At ANY sector. That also about religion, morals, sex, marriage and every subject. All that reaches us trough their push/force/emergency tactics ARE PURE MANIPULATION
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.

God made Trump win for a reason.

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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Interesting rant A_I_I.
If you own a piece of roof or dirt you can now generate your own electricity at a competitive rate and solar PV continues to get cheaper. EV's are the future and the energy to run them cannot be monopolised by Big Electric, Big Government or Big Oil.
je suis charlie

Agenda_Is_Incorrect
Agenda_Is_Incorrect
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Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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EVs need a lot of energy. Can't see a small house or apartment (remember, most urban people are restricted to them) making enough to charge a cae and all appliances of the house

Would be glad to hear otherwise

You see, I don't have a problem with big anything. Or enterprises. Or governments. Humans are a sociable race. We need big something to be able to access our needs/progress. What's a problem is to believe in all those organizations manipulate and tell you, also the problem is people themselves who let organizations (and MAKE organizations) corrupt

All things considered, reliable enterprises/organizations/governments are needed and not really some fully "off the grid" solution as "make your own energy". Options are great, but there are greater things and greater needs

That would make me see EVs a lot better though, as energy enterprises and governments are unreliable

While there's freedom and people are not forced (or force themselves) to abandon being free in the name of manipulations and lies, all can be done. To the moment, while solid and non entirely freedom-give up solutions are not presented I'm not enjoying EVs
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.

God made Trump win for a reason.

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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Agenda_Is_Incorrect wrote:EVs need a lot of energy. Can't see a small house or apartment (remember, most urban people are restricted to them) making enough to charge a cae and all appliances of the house

Would be glad to hear otherwise
In Australia you can buy 5kW PV for $5k - $10k. That will generate 20kW.hr per day on average (depends a lot on where you live). A Nissan Leaf travels about 160km on 20 kW.hr so you could travel 1100 km/wk if all the solar power was used in the car. A Mitsubishi Imiev would go about 1400 km. Most people don't drive that much so there should be some solar power left to use in the home.

The numbers are still not compelling but they are rapidly improving on both sides - PV and EV. (I haven't even mentioned where Elon Musk is headed)
je suis charlie

adriannewey9864
adriannewey9864
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Joined: 22 Sep 2012, 20:58

Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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woah :wtf: , F1 technical just got F1 political.

İ see it as we have 3 choices:
1. make F1 electric and watch it dwindle in audience due to lack of noise etc.
2. keep it petrol and be criticized due to emmisions etc.
3. make it hydrogen and lose the cons of 1 and 2 but gain cons of storage problems, engine reinforcement hydrogen production etc.

i also see it as hydrogen carries F1 into the future without losing F1's heart.
autogyro, i agree that b*stard oil companies withhold EV tech which is undoubdtedly the future and understand your anger towards them, however in my opinion the motor car is an enjoyable driving experience that fits with ICE's and give you freedom, i think battery power should be utilised in mass public transport such as trains.

Anyway, on another note, to increase the efficiency and technology innovations in producing hydrogen from water, maybe teams could each have a measured space in the garage to produce hydrogen say 30 mins before the race or quali starts, they have unlimited amounts of water and the beauty is that teams can put whatever they want in that space apart from hydrogen :lol: , to produce hydrogen for the race, this would force the teams to make the production faster and more efficient (if you limited electricity) for allowance of more fuel consumption for more power or just lasting longer in the race, we have seen F1 have many real world applications (aero, engines, materials) this could be another :wink: .

adriannewey9864
adriannewey9864
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also, surely hydrogen is technologically viable to store, as the green gt had huge hydrogen tanks

mrluke
mrluke
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: hydrogen fuelled F1 cars

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gruntguru wrote:
Agenda_Is_Incorrect wrote:EVs need a lot of energy. Can't see a small house or apartment (remember, most urban people are restricted to them) making enough to charge a cae and all appliances of the house

Would be glad to hear otherwise
In Australia you can buy 5kW PV for $5k - $10k. That will generate 20kW.hr per day on average (depends a lot on where you live). A Nissan Leaf travels about 160km on 20 kW.hr so you could travel 1100 km/wk if all the solar power was used in the car. A Mitsubishi Imiev would go about 1400 km. Most people don't drive that much so there should be some solar power left to use in the home.

The numbers are still not compelling but they are rapidly improving on both sides - PV and EV. (I haven't even mentioned where Elon Musk is headed)
But how much of that 20kw is still available to charge you car when you get home in the evening?