Mercedes noise

[modbaraban]

Makes me wonder

Why the Mercedes engines sound so differently? What's so special about them? Esp. last year it seemed that the Merc dominant sound frequency was one octave lower than the others.

Any idea why?

[Nelso90]

I think I know what you are talking about. In 2005 I noticed a low sound that may have been coming from the airbox, it was only on WOT though. Here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KudPL_baE0A
Sounds really "honky" compared to other cars.
I also notice an odd sound whenever the current FO108 is on any kind of rev limiter, like launch control, or traction control (I really noticed it when I was at the USGP this year.) It's kind of like a different harmonic. I have heard things about McLaren using a different rev-limiting system for less stress on the engine or something.
Here's a link of that sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAadII62rnU
It really kicks in when he's on corner exits. Seems like he uses a lot of traction control.
I also noticed the same sound on last years car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KhDqaON ... ed&search=
Are these the sounds you're talking about?
BTW, I just registered here, and I'm glad I did too!

[modbaraban]

Well first of all welcome to the forum, Nelso90

What I was talking about is well heard the 1st link of 3 with Merc FO110 of '05. Seems like the dominant ferquency is exactly 1 octave lower than of other engines. But then in 2006 all the engines actually came closer to that sounding becoming V8s.

I didn't mean the TC sound that is heard in those 2 lower links, but there's another question that came into my mind.

Clearly the 'cracky' noise (engine misfiring) on corner exits is TC but there's another thing too. The 2007 vid showed another engine sound alteration on various revs. As if the actual engine noise is undercoming Vibratto and AmplitudeModulatiuon effects. Sounds kinda wobbly. I remember hearing this coming from other cars as well... thought it's another way of TC sounding... not so sure now...

[Saribro]

Well we're listening at very high volume audio recorded with pretty crappy in-car microphones, in noisy circumstances, then compressed into some web-usable format.
The high volume alone is already causing obvious clipping issues, we might be focussing on artifacts from the recording rather than engine-specific treats.

[checkered]

More than a year

ago, on the now defunct BBC 5Live msgboard, someone claiming to be an insider (or having insider information) wrote on the issue of McLaren's perceptably lower engine tones. Can't be bothered to find the actual thread now. He/she suggested that Merc ran some sort of a "big bang" firing sequence at that time. That claim caused some debate, not much though, and I never investigated further. Though the "insider(?)" seemed to have some technical knowledge, the "information" was pretty vague at best. In fact I didn't remember this until you took the frequency thing up here and I only hope that someone here can quickly determine whether there's the slightest possibility of the "big bang" theory being true. (Yes, I'm open to cosmic wisecracks involving Einstein and Hawking, too ...)

[Nelso90]

Modbaraban, I think I know what you're talking about. I am not quite sure what causes that kind of fluttery noise. It seems to happen for no reason, like right in the middle of the straights, and it doesn't seem like it cuts power. I never heard it in 2005, but in 2006 it was very prevalent, even in the STR Cosworth V-10's. All the cars do it though, so it couldn't be a distortion or artifact in the recording, right?

[modbaraban]

All the cars do it though, so it couldn't be a distortion or artifact in the recording, right?

i'm sure not, since the the distortion is very heavy and would alter other sounds as well. I'm an electronic musician and can really tell if it's the whole soundtrack being distorted or just one sound in it.

About the 'big bang'... I never meant to claim they had some 'special technologies' or something, but it's absolutely clear that the sound was different. It's not like 1 U-tube video there are lots of videos with very high volume audio recorded with just the SAME pretty crappy in-car microphones, in just the SAME noisy circumstances as other engines.

[Nelso90]

Yeah, MotoGP practically survives upon the "big bang" engine principal. So F1 isn't out of the question. MotoGP bikes sound really weird too, but that's a whole 'nother story!

[DaveKillens]

The Big Bang engine method has always intrigued me, but there seem to be some drawbacks in a Formula One environment. First, this type of engine produces great shock loads in the entire drivetrain, something undesirable where engine and transmission reliability is as paramount in F1. Secondly, the whole idea of a big bang is to allow the driver to sense when the rear wheels are reaching their traction limit. Well, TC does that job too, and to me it doesn't make sense to build a big bang engine while the traction control can pretty well be an acceptable substitute.

[RH1300S]

I'd never thought about "Big Bang" in the context of F1 engines.

I had a different take on why Big Bang works with bikes. By grouping the firing pulses together, there is a longer delay between firing strokes, giving the tyres some recovery time before the next bang. This improves traction - so can delay the point where TC is required.

Just an aside - my opinion is: Even if you have TC, you should still work on your car (or bike ) to delay the point where TC is required - I.e. don't use TC as a crutch for poor grip; work on getting grip first and use TC as a refinement for car control.

P.S. Big Bang on bikes is often likened to the differences between a 2 stroke single and a 4 stroke single in MX (or any dirt competition). The 4 strokes get better traction because they give the tyre a "rest" between each firing pulse.

[Nelso90]

I've looked at some N/A cars on youtube, and a lot, especially BMW M3's with the Alpha N engine management system make that "octave lower" noise. It's got to be the airbox.
Check these vids out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lymHiR21pTM
Compare the N/A one to the supercharged one. The supercharged M3 CSL has a a centrifugal supercharger, which really dampens the intake harmonics. The N/A one has a huge open airbox, amplifying the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXfUdTwRx80
This video has a regular M3 (not SMG) with the same Alpha N system as used in the CSL installed, it makes a huge difference in the intake sound.
Believe it or not, I actually had a motor scooter that made the same "octave lower" noise. I really hot rodded it (gutted the exhaust, lightened the crank, ported the cylinder transfer ports) but it still needed more air, so I cut some big holes around the air filter housing, and sure enough, it started making that lower sound. This thing was capable of 12,000RPM, so I suppose the same harmonic principles apply. It was 36cc's of pure speed!

[Belatti]

mmm... interesting...
Now I post something I already posted in the thread stepped exhaust primaries, a week ago, with no answer...

Sorry to interrupt this quite good thread is going on here, but I have got a question...

Does someone know why Ferrari engine sound is louder and with a higher pitch than other cars???
(this is what I hear in my last F1 race -Argentina 98´-)
I used to thought that was because exhaust pipes... [In Argentina 95 I (a very little kid) thought that was because it was the only V12, but then, the following year every engine was V10 or V8 and Ferrari still sounded louder, the people in the stands called it "AN ANGER VIOLIN "]

[HKS]

The Ferrari V8 sound is so sweet whereas Renault AND mERCEDES AREN'T GOOD TO EARS.


REASON:I dunno

[Militia Est Vita]

I agree that it might have to do more with exahust shapes or maybe even with cooling devices in the chasis like the gilles introduced in the R25 and later used by most of the teams. The sound of the engine IMO has to be different when it is totally covered by the chasis than when it has gilles.

[modbaraban]

...maybe even with cooling devices in the chasis like the gilles introduced in the R25 and later used by most of the teams. The sound of the engine IMO has to be different when it is totally covered by the chasis than when it has gilles.

I doubt it.

BTW, the grills appeared already on F2003-GA (if not earlier). Chimnmeys appeared even earlier.