Sparkplug (ignition of F1 engines)

[ProEngineer]

Hello @ll!

I´m new in this forum, and very excited to find it... and hopefully good
and funded answeres for my technical questions...

I have an V8 F1 Engine in work! What means, that i´m trying to design
one in the CAD Programm "ProEngineer", and calculate it with MathCad
and ANSYS as well i´m possible to do...

Also, sorry for my bad english... wich is outmoded in the last years cause
of non using it...

Here my Question... do anyone know, what else as the "heat classification number" is a criteria for the dimensioning of a sparkplug wich is used in a
V8 F1 Engine... ??? Yes the dimensions too, to keep the cylinder head hight
low as it´s possible, and the valves as big as its possible.... but what else?
Or can anyone specify a used spark plug???

I hope everyone understands my very bad school english ;o)

Greetings and many thanks in front....

ProEngineer....

[zac510]

I can't tell you the heat range (because I don't know) but the design is surface discharge and manufacturer varies.

[ProEngineer]

Thanks! I know after the thermodynamical calculations that the peak exhaust temperature is about 1380 [°C] degrees.... in the cylinderhead
where the sparkplug is placed with good cooling parameters i have
round about 850 - 900 [°C].... thats a lot!!!
But there must be some sparkplugs wich are used and made for them!
Other question is, how many fingers have the plug witch is used for them?
1? 2? 3?... The manufactorers like NGK or BOSCH are holding still quiet
when i ask them... o.k. ... top secret...
Next is, i need a 3D-Modell to finish my design and my calculations...

So long...

ProEngineer....

[zac510]

Fingers?

[ProEngineer]

ground electrodes??? see attached pic! sorry!!!

http://rb-aa.bosch.com/advastaboschaa/C ... lication=1

[Belatti]

I think heat range should be very very cold to help those high temps cool down!
Here some info I´ve got:

Innovation in 1999 (dont know if it was applied or not):
http://www.atlasf1.com/99/oct06/burckmyer.html

Pics and dimentions:
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/102 ... oledo.html

Innovation: pulse plugs manufacturer page:
http://www.pulstarplug.com/

Still, nothing concrete about heat range!

PS: you must publish your results when you finish your V8 model!!!

[ProEngineer]

Who can tell me, how can i attach a pic to my answere... wich is
saved local on my computer ... how can i upload it???

Thanx and greetings...

ProEngineer

[modbaraban]

Who can tell me, how can i attach a pic to my answere... wich is
saved local on my computer ... how can i upload it???

viewtopic.php?p=57736#57736

Also reading FAQ sometimes erally help

[ProEngineer]

Here it is... a pic of my actual design... there are only 2 cylinders
pictured... this makes the handling of the 3D -Datas easier and they
can be copied to an 8 cylinder as well...

enjoy it... without sparkplug...

ProEngineer...

[checkered]

I think heat range should be very very cold to help those high temps cool down!
Here some info I´ve got:

Innovation in 1999 (dont know if it was applied or not):
http://www.atlasf1.com/99/oct06/burckmyer.html

I did a quick search and here's where the plasma spark plug/combustion analysis combo mentioned in that link can be found nowadays:

Woodward SmartFire (link)

Motorsports related (and still very promising), but no mention of Formula One specifically. Perhaps, as it was a struggle to miniaturize the technology to conventional spark plug dimensions, it's a further challenge to get the components down to current F1 specs - though I could well imagine the advantages could outweigh an increase in size.

While I was looking into this, I also found out about potential developments in optic fibres that could enable "plugless" laser ignition (current fibres couldn't take the harsh environment). I only leafed through it and it seemed the development is yet pretty far from an application that would suit F1. Perhaps in the future.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Those Pulse Plugs look interesting.

[riff_raff]

ProEngineer,

Nice work with the modelling. The parts look pretty good, although the piston skirt is not quite right and the rod beam looks too wide. But I imagine you're working from photographs, so it's tough to get things right. I'm a CATIA user, so I can't give you any advice on using ProE.

F1 plugs are very customized for each engine. They usually have a very long reach (the threaded portion) and have a very small thread diameter (maybe as small as 9mm or 10mm). They even use special, small diameter wrenches to install the plugs. All of this is done to maximize the available space in the cylinder head for ports and valves. Take a look here:

[Carlos]

Very good port design, size and angles - ProEngineer. Looking at riff_raff's spark plug pictures; they look like a perfect fit centered between the ports.

Checkered; there's an early thread where Ciro commented on his experiments with a low power laser and a model airplane engine.Comic engineering - don't try this at home. Flames and workbench scorches. Admired the spirit of experimentation though.

[riff_raff]

Carlos,

One thing you'll note about those Denso plugs in the pictures is that they are a surface discharge type tip design. It takes a heck of a lot of energy to get a decent spark across that gap. Plus, that recessed, shrouded electrode would be prone to fouling in a conventional engine with a stock ignition.

But the benefit is that the surface area of the arc is greatly increased in comparison to a conventional, single side electrode plug. The only other place, besides F1 engines, that I've seen this type of plug used is in rotary engines.

[Carlos]

We had a 1969 Kawasaki Mach 1 which used a similar plug paired with a CDI ignition - but the plugs continually fouled and we ended up swapping them out for conventional NGK's.