2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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One day later, in a hindsight and looking at the big picture, it is absolutely sad that we talk about a tire blow and not the race itself.
My rating for Spa this year is 5. I expected more of the race, but it was average show.

Certainly, a safety issue such as this one should not happen. Moreover, drivers must be allowed to race and push hard. With Pirelli tires, that's not happening. That's what they have been asked to produce? Maybe. But with so many issues historically, one has to wonder - is it always team|driver fault? Isn't it time for a change?

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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turbof1 wrote:Pirelli should have given a conservative estimation from the first place anyway to ensure safety!
It would have been possible that, the tyres would have gone much before that, had it not for Virtual Safety Car allowing cooling of the tyres. Merhi and Stevens changed their tyres at at lap 15 and they went on for another 28 without any problems. Ericsson and Nasr changed the tyres at lap 9 and 10 respectively and went on for another 34/33 laps!!!
turbof1 wrote:For the record again: A pirelli engineer was right there at Ferrari to atleast object against the strategy. I don't think that has happened.
Is he supposed to? Does he get to see all the details of car's setup and how it affects the tires and then OBJECT? OR Is he just available for consultation only? I believe, because the PIRELLI engineer is an external entity, no team would risk providing all these details and then seek his advice. They probably ask him to provide certain information on tyres that they want and then accommodate in their setups. If anyone had much stronger knowledge of those tyres, it was the team itself based on their practice runs. Unless PIRELLI finds a FOREIGN object affecting the tyre blow out, the responsibility would be on Ferrari for going with an aggressive strategy and setup + the driver for constantly running over kerbs to gain time.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on 24 Aug 2015, 09:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Racer X
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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My simple take on the over all race with out going into details is this;Lewis had an easy boring victory while the whole race and all the entertainment happened in the fight for 2nd and 3rd. From Sergios initial surge to 2nd to Rosberg Grosjean and Kyviat eventually dropping Sergio to 5th. That was entertaining the fight for 2nd and and 3rd.
RedBull Racing Checo//PEREZ

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MercedesAMGSpy
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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SimRacer wrote:I can only imagine the shitstorm we'd be witnessing here had it been Hamilton's tires the ones to fail/explode... But it happened to someone else and so everything is fine and we can for the 347th time give Pirelli another pass.
Lewis Hamilton isn't only popular in showbiz I see, man man obsessed.


The Pirelli tyres are horrible, but trying an one stopper after what happened with Rosberg earlier this weekend is asking for trouble.

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iotar__
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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"Moreover, drivers must be allowed to race and push hard. With Pirelli tires, that's not happening." Not true. A. You don't push 100% on a one stopper with softs in Spa :) . B. You don't want to destroy your car stay on track and avoid white bits next time, Maldo didn't either.
Image
Another storm in a tea cup with a heavy artillery of safety. Don't even start me with drivers. When gagging order was imposed after Bianchi's crash they were not worried they wouldn't be transported to a hospital on time or forced to race in an unsafe conditions. Dirty corporation's image was at stake, blame the deceases and label it "a freaky accident".

Unexplained Alonso crash, drivers with ignored multiple incidents, a Ferrari with badly attached wheel crashing into other car - nothing, Verstappen Monaco - only Massa talks. Actually Rosberg has a reason to speak and Massa would be consistent but the rest: no. It was a "freaky accident" a team worked for with a strategy and driving. Move on, unless something happens again in normal circumstances of course. Back to racing, hard to dislike Ricciardo when he's straightforward like that (motorsport.com):
“I think we had pace on Perez,” Ricciardo said. “But they are slippery down the straights, and we knew that. "Then we did the undercut, but then we sort of got boxed in with Kimi [Raikkonen], and Perez got me back quite easily down the straight. He did have the option, so I think that tyre was a lot stronger.

"The middle of the stint with the prime we were just circulating, I was struggling a bit on that tyre to be honest. I was hoping to get that option on soon and have a good end of the race, but that was how it ended.” Ricciardo said he would have had a similar race to Kvyat: “We had our sights set on that, we put ourselves in that position at the start."We saw Perez had quite a bit of deg, but we felt on the option we would have been stronger, and I think we were at the start.
"It's easy to say now, but I think we would have genuinely been in the fight with Grosjean there for the last spot on the podium.
F1 can be interesting when better drivers have a half a chance to compete, look at Perez almost overtaking Hamilton at the start. This is what they should focus on for 2017, competitiveness not futuristic gimmicks.

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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In 2005 cars completed a race on a single set of tyres, in many instances, the car broke before the tyre did (Kimi Raikkonen, Nurburgring 2005). However, in one instance, the tyres were unable to complete the race without failing (Indy 2005). Michellin were forced out of the sport for this, a single race. Yet Pirelli are able to get away with it time and time again?

iotar, in that picture, what part of the kurb/track damaged the tyre? How fragile are these Pirelli tyres if they can be damaged by the road surface they are designed to run on!?

Jonnycraig
Jonnycraig
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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MercedesAMGSpy wrote:
SimRacer wrote:I can only imagine the shitstorm we'd be witnessing here had it been Hamilton's tires the ones to fail/explode... But it happened to someone else and so everything is fine and we can for the 347th time give Pirelli another pass.
The Pirelli tyres are horrible, but trying an one stopper after what happened with Rosberg earlier this weekend is asking for trouble.
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel & Massa all brought up their concerns over Rosbergs accident in the driver briefing and were told the tyres were fine and could do 40 laps....

jz11
jz11
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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people who think that this was a freak accident or ferrari is to blame for it should think again - here are few things to consider:
the tire should not ever under no circumstances "blow up" simply because the compound wore off - the effect is huge loss of grip - you cannot therefore load the tire up as much as you could with the compound still on it - hence there is no reason for it to fail because it was "pushed too hard"

loss of grip did not happen - there still was compound on the tire then - 0 reasons for it to structurally fail if operation conditions were not exceeded - temperature/pressure, and I'm 1001% both Pirelli and Ferrari see this data live, hence the tire was in its normal operation and just failed with 25%!!! of expected wear still on it

and here is another thought - suppose the compound wore off to carcass, huge loss of grip, end of the race, final couple laps, the driver has someone 10sec behind, would you want to see this car go into "mandatory" pitstop because the tire is allowed to just blow up whenever the compound wears off or delaminates, or you would want to see the driver to try and keep the car on the track for those few last corners and finish the race while not giving up his place?

seriously - anyone who thinks that this was a "freak" accident or Ferrari are to blame, should not even comment on the matter, go and apply for work in Pirelli marketing or something, just not post rubbish in motorsports related forum

there was no way for Pirelli to handle this issue without accepting the blame, hence they went the denial route, it is simple as that

Vary
Vary
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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I have also to add that during the race the italian tv (sky) interview Paul Hembery asking if Vettel would have been able to finish the race. He said that the tires would have resisted till the end, but with probably a big loss in performance.
We clearly saw that both this statements were wrong, with Vettel not being able to complete the race while there was no "big" loss in performance.

(I'm not for completely Pirelli's fault, I'm just waiting for an official verdict on this incident)

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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I think the teams should be able to source their own tyres if they want to. Rather than be forced to use Pirelli, if they are able to source their own supply from another manufacturer they should be allowed to do that, just with any other component of the car.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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This tyres are crap, I´ve been trying to justify Pirelli about the blowout, but I really can´t. A medium compound blowing up after 28 laps? If it was the soft or supersoft then ok, but a medium? It didn´t even reach the cliff, as their laptimes, even when not the fastest, where competitive not 2-3 seconds off the pace as they would have been after reaching the cliff. So there was rubber, but the tyre blew out.

Also, Vettel going off track so frequently must have some relevance, but even so many drivers do it also. It may be a coincidence, but when it´s not a single case, but Rosberg also suffered another blow out, then...

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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About the race itself, great race for Grosjean, didn´t expect a Lotus in the podium.

Hamilton cruising for the title again


About STR... Max did a great race, as aggresive as usual... while Sainz suffered the fourth retirement in a row because of his car, fifth in the season if my memory serve me, what means his car only allow him to score points in half of the races he start. This is becoming disturbing

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knabbel
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012, 16:32

Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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What I really can't match is that before the race Pirelli says that the tires should last 40 laps and then after the race gives a statement that this would never happend if the hard tires were only alowwd to use for maximum 50% of the laps.

Jano11
Jano11
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Joined: 17 Mar 2014, 10:50

Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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zeph wrote:
Jano11 wrote:
zeph wrote:Am I the only one who expected Vettel's tires to fall off?
Yes you are, you strive on schadenfreude.
You seem to know me well, anonymous internet forum poster.

And it is 'thrive'. Not 'strive'.
You posted the same on autosport forum, plus your history on both these boards, that's what a pattern shows.

Jano11
Jano11
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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TAG wrote:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12526/ ... xmiUhJfzV2

In the above link, Sky has a very good video of the event. If you look at Vettel's line after getting through Eu Rouge, he's two feet further out than Grosjean was while following behind him. (He did that consistently throughout the race) The blowout happens immediately after that.

Then there's this which I find has been Pirelli's uphill battle.

http://i.imgur.com/Ysl7dKm.png
Pirelli: two years ago bla bla bla!
Question to Pirelli: why didn't you fix your crap tires during the last 4 years?
Pirelli: silence

This is Pirelli's marketing for you. They are lucky no one got harmed and instead of thanking Fortuna for that they come out and spout rubbish.