2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
FW17
211
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by FW17 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:04 am

I doubt most drivers would have taken it flat out if the hard runoff and wide kerb were removed.

wuzak
353
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by wuzak » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:24 am

ME4ME wrote:From Autosport.com
Andy Cowell:
"All the work around combustion efficiency is very potent, because you've got 1240KW potential in the fuel with it flowing at 100kg/h, so the day we get to 100 per cent conversion efficiency, we will have 1240KW as well as the K. That's our aspiration before we retire.
So there you have it. Specific energy is 44,64 MJ/kg for Petronas fuel.
If their ICE is runing at 40% efficiency that would mean 665hp.

If they are getting around 700hp, as has been rumoured, that is 42% efficiency.

gruntguru
432
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by gruntguru » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:42 am

ME4ME wrote:From Autosport.com
Andy Cowell:
"All the work around combustion efficiency is very potent, because you've got 1240KW potential in the fuel with it flowing at 100kg/h, so the day we get to 100 per cent conversion efficiency, we will have 1240KW as well as the K. That's our aspiration before we retire.
So there you have it. Specific energy is 44,64 MJ/kg for Petronas fuel.
Nice find.
Unfortunately Andy is not going to be able to retire - ever! He clearly hasn't heard of the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Carnot efficiency limit.
je suis charlie

Cold Fussion
136
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:51 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Cold Fussion » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:48 am

SimRacer wrote:I'm not convinced that's flat out in a F1. And as for LMP1 cars I know they can't take it flat out.
The onboards prove that it is flat for both F1 and LMP1. Here is a handy little video with Earl Bamber saying explicitly it is flat.


If that isn't enough, here is a 2 hour onboard video from the race with the 919 going through Eau Rouge flat lap after lap.


gruntguru wrote:
ME4ME wrote:From Autosport.com
Andy Cowell:
"All the work around combustion efficiency is very potent, because you've got 1240KW potential in the fuel with it flowing at 100kg/h, so the day we get to 100 per cent conversion efficiency, we will have 1240KW as well as the K. That's our aspiration before we retire.
So there you have it. Specific energy is 44,64 MJ/kg for Petronas fuel.
Nice find.
Unfortunately Andy is not going to be able to retire - ever! He clearly hasn't heard of the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Carnot efficiency limit.
Alternative explanation, it means Petronas have a developed a ~74 MJ/kg super fuel so they have 1240 kw potential at the carnot limit.

It's a joke

Juzh
329
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Juzh » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:51 pm

Cold Fussion wrote:
SimRacer wrote:I'm not convinced that's flat out in a F1. And as for LMP1 cars I know they can't take it flat out.
The onboards prove that it is flat for both F1 and LMP1.
It's not flat all the time for all cars in F1. Lotus finishing in P3 couldn't do it for the majority of the race.

Cold Fussion
136
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:51 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Cold Fussion » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:14 pm

Obviously not in F1 because of the fuel loads and massive tyre desegregation they have.

wuzak
353
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by wuzak » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:02 am

I'd also ask of LMP1 if they are running full ICE power + full MGUK power?

After all, while they have 8MJ of capacity in the 919, twice the capacity of an F1 car, they also expend it at higher power rates.

Juzh
329
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Juzh » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:54 am

Cold Fussion wrote:Obviously not in F1 because of the fuel loads and massive tyre desegregation they have.
I think lotus couldn't do it on any kind of fuel or tire. Also probably because of higher approach speeds ~315 kmh for an F1 car. Not sure about an lmp1.

Cold Fussion
136
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:51 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Cold Fussion » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:32 am

wuzak wrote:I'd also ask of LMP1 if they are running full ICE power + full MGUK power?

After all, while they have 8MJ of capacity in the 919, twice the capacity of an F1 car, they also expend it at higher power rates.
In the videos you can hear the 919 deploying the electric motors through Eau Rouge and Radion, presumably it's full boost since it's the most efficient way to deploy it.

alexx_88
58
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:46 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by alexx_88 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:39 pm

On-board shots from Rosberg and Bottas today showed the ERS battery charging at the end of the main straight while their speed was still increasing. Would it be correct to assume that at that point the MGU-H was producing more than 160HP?

Spoutnik
3
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:02 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Spoutnik » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:24 pm

Maybe they are on the slipstream of another car ?
"The Nissan hasn't so much ride height...the only way for them to make sparks" © H.Pescarolo LeMans2015

bergie88
6
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:20 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by bergie88 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:32 pm

alexx_88 wrote:On-board shots from Rosberg and Bottas today showed the ERS battery charging at the end of the main straight while their speed was still increasing. Would it be correct to assume that at that point the MGU-H was producing more than 160HP?
This is interesting. I would say yes, but that would mean that Mercedes is already further than we are all thinking. You say speed was still increasing, so the MGU-K was not used to generate electricity by applying negative torque to the driveshaft. If battery state of charge is increasing, it means that the MGU-H is responsible for it. Insane! =D>

About more powerfull cars, I suggest to increase the size of the MGU-K instead of lifting the fuel flow limit. In that way more energy can be recovered during braking and even more energy can be send directly from the MGU-H to the MGU-K to power the car, because it seems that Mercedes is already generating more energy with their power unit than what they can use :mrgreen:.

alexx_88
58
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:46 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by alexx_88 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:38 pm

Honda can barely get the levels of today, I'm afraid to think what would happen if the FIA would lift the limit on the MGU-K's power.

Tommy Cookers
509
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by Tommy Cookers » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:54 pm

alexx_88 wrote:On-board shots from Rosberg and Bottas today showed the ERS battery charging at the end of the main straight while their speed was still increasing. Would it be correct to assume that at that point the MGU-H was producing more than 160HP?
no imo
generating to reach the permitted max stored energy use gives better race performance .....
than generating less for storage in favour of real-time use of recovered energy
ie there's no particular reason to think Merc were exhaust-recovering at more than 160 hp

the least racetime-efficient real-time use of energy is eg beyond halfway along the straights

bergie88
6
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:20 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post by bergie88 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:03 pm

Tommy Cookers wrote:
alexx_88 wrote:On-board shots from Rosberg and Bottas today showed the ERS battery charging at the end of the main straight while their speed was still increasing. Would it be correct to assume that at that point the MGU-H was producing more than 160HP?
no imo
generating to reach the permitted max stored energy use gives better race performance .....
than generating less for storage in favour of real-time use of recovered energy
ie there's no particular reason to think Merc were exhaust-recovering at more than 160 hp

the least racetime-efficient real-time use of energy is eg beyond halfway along the straights
But by storing and drawing energy from the ES you have efficiency losses, does that outweigh the usage of the energy later on?