Gentlemen, rate your engines!

[modbaraban]

Gentlemen, rate your engines!

Hi.

As you may know already (from my sig) I enjoy simracing. The sim I’m racing was abandoned by major modding groups, so there are any no good complete F1 modifications for seasons after 2005. Smaller groups of modders usually concentrate on the visual aspects so those mods have poor physics (physical models) that often show rather bizarre race results, lap times and overall car handling.

I’ve recently joined a modding team to produce the 1st legal (in terms of using others work only with permission granted) 2007-season modification for F1 Challenge 99-02. I will be concentrating only on physical models, performance data, and also sound. In the nearest time I plan to create the 2007 engines performance models using 2006 and sometimes 2005 data as a reference.

I think I’m just in the right place to post this. I’m sure the F1T community may be of great help providing me some info.

So here’s the deal:

Please post everything you know about 2007 V8 engines performance.
Basically what I need to know is:

1. What are the main differences from the 2006 engines (how the engineers attempted to compensate the “loss” of revs above 19000?).
The idle RPM level?
Is the limiter working not with absolute precision but within some range of RPM like +/- 50 rpm or something? Do the revs ever reach full 19000, or is limiter set under 19000 to be on the safe side? If yes, then by how much?
Also what is the estimate difference in fuel consumption with the V10s (%)? Same question about heating/cooling etc.

2. The second thing I need to know is the difference between the engines on the 2007 grid. It’s rather small and most of you don’t have much reliable info on that, but I heard some estimates though. For example about the RS27 engine which is more torquy than other on lower revs. Any info about other engines? Their strenths and weaknesses? Info about their weight and reliability is welcome too.

3. Client spec. engines. Are they equal to those used by the manufacturer teams?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HELPING ME WITH THIS!

PS: I know it’ll involve a lot of guessing, but I don’t want to guess it myself. I’d rather than rely on your judgements.

[bizadfar]

I remember in suzuka 2006 when they refuelled button;s car it was 100litres to about 60laps.

19000rpm limit

In 2006, I bet BMW had the most powerful, you can see in Monza where they really lifted their results. I believe that Ferrari/BMW/Mercedes had engines that could rev close to 21000.

They overcome this by probably maximising torque. I estimate they have 5% more torque this year, possibly even 10%.

Heating and cooling is difficult because that mainly depends on bodywork and making a decision from there. Of course real teams know their competitors engine cooling efficiency or inefficiency.

Weight i think is minimum 95kg.

Engines can be mapped for drivability and its ALWAYS done during setup for each circuit, so again its almost impossible to simulate in game.

[riff_raff]

modbaraban,

Read here, starting on page 11:

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... ATIONS.pdf

[Belatti]

Now, this is rating engines!!!

FORMULA 1™ Gran Premio d'Italia 2007 Friday Practice

Speed Trap

Pos No Driver Speed
1 10 Robert Kubica 349.6
2 9 Nick Heidfeld 349.4
3 1 Fernando Alonso 348.9
4 2 Lewis Hamilton 348.7
5 5 Felipe Massa 346.1
6 6 Kimi Räikkönen 346.1
7 12 Jarno Trulli 345.4
8 15 Mark Webber 345.0
9 14 David Coulthard 344.8
10 11 Ralf Schumacher 344.0
11 19 Sebastian Vettel 343.2
12 3 Giancarlo Fisichella 343.1
13 18 Vitantonio Liuzzi 343.1
14 4 Heikki Kovalainen 342.7
15 20 Adrian Sutil 342.0
16 21 Sakon Yamamoto 341.2
17 16 Nico Rosberg 339.8
18 17 Alexander Wurz 339.6
19 8 Rubens Barrichello 339.5
20 23 Anthony Davidson 338.8
21 22 Takuma Sato 338.5
22 7 Jenson Button 337.0

Beyond "relative speed" cause friday practice aero setup
This is clearly seen:
1) BWM, Mercedes and Ferrari above all, in that order
2) Honda lack of power (all 4 cars at last)
3) STR Ferrari has less drag, more wing or better engine than Spyker
4) I doubt Toyota has better aero package than Williams, they should be using more wing.

[modbaraban]

3) STR Ferrari has less drag, more wing or better engine than Spyker

...or better car

[Belatti]

Well man, "less drag" is included in "better car"

[freedom_honda]

i cant believe honda got the worst engine on the grid

[Ciro Pabón]

I think Belatti points us in the right direction. I'm afraid that the engine should be "rated" at low speeds, because at high speeds it's not only the engine what counts, but, as he says, drag, being drag proportional (more or less) to the cube of the speed.

So, maybe Honda has the worst aero package or, more reasonably, has probably low grip and need for more "wing" on the straights, as Belatti himself notes.

After all, revs are limited, and (given the "cube law") a 10 mph would mean a huge difference in HP, if all of it were attributed to less engine power: it would be of the order of 1.037, or 349.6/337, cubed. That means 12% less power, which sounds a little crazy.

[bar555]

Does anyone knows the horsepower and revs of each engine in 2007?? I have some data but i want to check if they are correct .

[Belatti]

Revs are limited at 19000

HP.... ???

tell me the engine mean efective pressure and I´ll tell you...

[modbaraban]

As far as I'm aware it's ~750hp.

[bar555]

Of course revs are limited to 19.000 rpm . To make it clear: In what revs the engine has the best torque and power ? Maximum power is not always so important (Remember Williams Supertec in 1999 and Ralf Schumacher in Monza , despite his max power handicap he managed to suceed the fastest lap time in race because his supertec engine was well ballanced ).Here is my data (max power)

BMW 760 HP
Ferrari 750-760 HP
Renault 740-750 HP
Mercedes 740-750 HP
Toyota 740 HP
Honda 730 HP

[Belatti]

bar555, you must always put your source or calculations for things like these!

[riff_raff]

Revs are limited at 19000

HP.... ???

tell me the engine mean efective pressure and I´ll tell you...

BMEP, FMEP or IMEP?

[Belatti]

BMEP, FMEP or IMEP?

Wait riff_raff, I´m from a Spanish speaking country, so too much abreviations make me confussed.
Could you explain?