Alternative engine configuration

[dren]

I don't like this idea at all. What team would even run these? Maybe Sauber, but that is about it. All of the other teams have partnerships with the manufacturers or are OEMs themselves. Even Manor has a Mercedes deal.

Any money saved on the engine side would be reinvested on the aero side.

[Phil]

Ostensibly this is to help prevent the smaller teams from folding.
However, those same time spend several times the cost of a PU on chassis and aero.

I'm not sure how you'd want it any different way. Getting into the PU development business would cost several times what teams could spend on chassis and aero. Not to mention that chassis and aero are required irregardless if there is a PU or not. There's no way to shorten what they already need to invest. The cars don't build themselves after all.

[Vortex Motio]

...
And what does independence mean? Are you allowed to develop engines under an OEM name for other series like Ilmor for Indycar?

Let´s look at available engines:
Ilmor Indycar 2.2L
Cosworth Nissan LMP 3L
Cosworth F1 1.6L
AER P60 2.0L (assumed)

Reading through that call for expressions for interest document, one can assume that "entirely independent of a major car manufacturer" means:

• No ownership of any shares of candidate company
• That the candidate company's "industrial capacity" (which is identified as equipment /composite and machining capabilities, Premises, & Human resources) doesn't rely upon or isn't supplied by a road car manufacturer
• The supply chain for this project doesn't rely upon a road car manufacturer
• The financial strengths required by the 3 year business plan for this tender doesn't rely upon a road car manufacturer

[motobaleno]

all this stuff of the alternative engine can potentially create big mess but from the technical point of view is surely intriguing.
I would like more information coverage from the media and the web.

[F1NAC]

Surely it's gonna be a mess. I'm intrigued with that detuning stuff. How on earth will that work and who will control that and based on what? But first of all we need to wait till 23rd November to see actually if someone is interested.

[NL_Fer]

So no KERS en potentially a twin turbo, this would make the engine lighter. So teams would have an advantage during qualy and ar the end of the race. But they have to take more fuel, so they are slower at the start of the race.

Even with the same minimum car weight, a lighter engine will help balancing the chassis weight.

So if Redbull would take this engine, they would qualify front row every race, trying to hold of the hybrid competition during the first stage of the race.

Maybe Newey can built an un-passable chasis next year.

[mrluke]

On one hand I think its stupid and going to be a real turn off for engine manufacturers who have watched the investment made by Renault, Honda, Merc and Ferrari which is now effectively wasted money.

On the other hand if this is a step towards allowing different teams to run different PU configurations then I think that is great for the sport and manufacturer interest.

[Cold Fussion]

So no KERS en potentially a twin turbo, this would make the engine lighter. So teams would have an advantage during qualy and ar the end of the race. But they have to take more fuel, so they are slower at the start of the race.

Even with the same minimum car weight, a lighter engine will help balancing the chassis weight.

So if Redbull would take this engine, they would qualify front row every race, trying to hold of the hybrid competition during the first stage of the race.

Maybe Newey can built an un-passable chasis next year.

Wouldn't they still be subject to the 100 kg race fuel limit? It is a sporting regulation so presumably it still applies despite the different technical regulations the engine adheres to.

[wuzak]

So no KERS en potentially a twin turbo, this would make the engine lighter. So teams would have an advantage during qualy and ar the end of the race. But they have to take more fuel, so they are slower at the start of the race.

Even with the same minimum car weight, a lighter engine will help balancing the chassis weight.

So if Redbull would take this engine, they would qualify front row every race, trying to hold of the hybrid competition during the first stage of the race.

Maybe Newey can built an un-passable chasis next year.

Wouldn't they still be subject to the 100 kg race fuel limit? It is a sporting regulation so presumably it still applies despite the different technical regulations the engine adheres to.

Apparently not.

There is talk of refuelling for the alternate engine users.

[SteveRacer]

How fast are they going to allow this new engine to go? If it wins a race will they throttle it back somehow? Hell, if I had a deal with an engine supplier and this new engine shows enough pace to win a race why would anyone still work with a manufacturer? Why would a manufacturer try and compete with it if it is regulated to be faster or as fast?

[wuzak]

How fast are they going to allow this new engine to go? If it wins a race will they throttle it back somehow? Hell, if I had a deal with an engine supplier and this new engine shows enough pace to win a race why would anyone still work with a manufacturer? Why would a manufacturer try and compete with it if it is regulated to be faster or as fast?

This is the problem.

The only one who will win with this engine is Red Bull. None of the other potential users would have a hope of beating them.

And if it goes ahead, I see that the 4 manufacturers would withdraw.

[FW17]

The others

Haas
Williams
Force India
Torro Rosso
Sauber
Manor

Will get a Engine and Gear box package at half the price as to what they are paying now without loosing out on performance. They may have long term agreements with the works teams but as Lotus has done over the last 2 years they can get out of it.

[wuzak]

The others

Haas
Williams
Force India
Torro Rosso
Sauber
Manor

Will get a Engine and Gear box package at half the price as to what they are paying now without loosing out on performance. They may have long term agreements with the works teams but as Lotus has done over the last 2 years they can get out of it.

Problem for them is that they would never be able to keep up with Red Bull.

Force India and Williams are doing better under the current arrangements than they would using the same engine as everybody else.

[FW17]

Red Bull need not be the benchmark for all teams, I don't think they would beat Red Bull with a reliable Renault engine as we saw last year.

Then again even teams like Red Bull can get it wrong when they have the best engine like Mclaren did in 2004 and 2006 and a team like Williams can have a good car like the FW34, Brawn or Sauber C31 with a great engine and be challenge for the championship.

[SiLo]

Do they not understand that changing the engine formula was always going to increase cost? The longer they leave it alone, the more costs will come down as R&D gets scaled back because of diminishing returns.

We have seen a real influx of hybrid cars recently, and I'm sure this is tied with F1 and WEC allowing hybrid engines. They can literally see the impact on road cars which is why engine manufacturers are interested again, and probably the sole reason Honda came back. It boggles my mind that they are even considering this as an idea.