The customer car thread..

[Rob W]

(I did do a forum search and couldn't find any recent thread on the topic)

Customer cars. Once again the subject is in the media and Eddie Jordan pipes in again with his take on the situation.

Jordan told F1 Racing magazine. "It must be a requirement that each F1 team design their own car..."

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 51,00.html

What do you think? In aid of having the full grid should a team like Prodrive, for example, be allowed to buy a complete car? Or should F1's long-standing old mantra apply - you make your own car - as many have said over and over? Frank Williams is adamant that the only way to be part of F1 is to make your own car... but, since he buys his engines, isn't he being a bit of a hypocrite? Does 'making your own chassis' matter to you? Should teams who want the customer chassis just sod off and join a series which does allow it?

What do you think?

Rob W

[Carlos]

Customer cars were once accepted in F1/GP, BRM, Lotus and McLaren all sold chassis to smaller independant teams. The Team name always went before the marque, Reg Parnell Racing was a Parnell BRM P261 for example. Frank Williams Racing Cars didn't always make their own chassis. Their first car was a Williams Repco Brabham BT26 and their second car a Williams de Tomaso Ford. The Brabham used a 3L Repco engine and the de Tomaso the DFV Ford V8 3L; so you can see smaller teams bought both chassis and engines from other companies. The difference is that today teams that use another chassis want to brand it with their own name exclusively, without acknowledging the car was made by another marque. I don't think they should be allowed to . A Honda chassis should always be a Honda ; not a Super Aguri. My avatar was a car owned by Frank Williams Racing Cars, the Brabham biplane, a BT24 with BT26 suspension bits painted the original Williams deep blue, fitted with a destroked 2.5L DFV Ford V8 in the Tasman Series, it sounds like heaven, but racing never stopped, all the F1 teams destroked or used other motors, packed up all the cars and went to down under for 7 or 8 races every year. It was heaven, about 1965>70, no off season. That same car, a BT24, had revised suspension to become a BT26 and raced the next year in F1, for a few races it carried both wings, unfortunately Lotus spoiled the fun, puting huge wings on little struts which broke over and over again. Then the wings came off the cars. There's an excellent sidebar on the BT26 on the front page. Anyways ... Williams raced a Brabham in F1 and called it what it was ... a Brabham.

Hmmm... The Super Aguri...I guess you could stretch things and call it a Super Honda.... but Honda hasn't built a really fast car that you could say was super for quite some time

EDITED

[modbaraban]

The thought about Aguri's and STR's leaving F1 might frighten Bernie more than not coming of Prodrive... Is it just me or anyone else heard from SAF1 that they're leaving if customer teams are disallowed?

PS:

[johny]

Dunno if that's true, what i've red is that SA is making his own car for 2008, but that's not very surprising after seing honda racing ---.

[Carlos]

STR and SA don't have the money to develope their own cars. Remember SA had a sponsor fail and couldn't even develop 07 car last half of season?

[modbaraban]

STR and SA don't have the money to develope their own cars. Remember SA had a sponsor fail and couldn't even develop 07 car last half of season?

That's right. But technically STR can (as they did) still refer to Red Bull Technologies as the developer of their car, not Red Bull Racing, right? But anyway Prodrive seem not to be alone in their boat since SAF1 made themselves clear about the issue.

[freedom_honda]

i have read reports saying (i am too lazy to find it sorry) SA will be running RA108 next year. so technically speaking there will be four Hondas on the grid next year. SA simply dont have the resources to develop their own car.

Edit: yep just found it http://formula1sport.net/formula-1/b-te ... 2008-cars/

it was Nick Fry who said SA will be running RA108 next year

[Belatti]

No customer cars should be allowed IMHO.
I would even allow a team to manufacture pieces for another, but with different specs.
This is not Champ cars or GP2 (I´m saying this with respect to those good series).

[scarbs]

I dont have a great affection for customer cars, but the rules as I recall only allow a team to run one for three seasons and then must become a constructor in their own right.
In defence of Super Aguri they have at least been developing their car on their own (as funds have permitted), unlike STR who simply get given the same designs as RBR. Also I was disappointed to see Prodrive planned simply to run a McLaren with no Prodrive technical staff, mechanics or development.

[johny]

I also agree with that face of customer cars. Let someone start from an old chassis and let them evolve it and build their own, i.e. if SA keeps going and build his own car. That also could help new teams like prodrive to enter f1, they'll keep evolving and building their cars with a great help at the beggining

[Scuderia_Russ]

I was disappointed to see Prodrive planned simply to run a McLaren with no Prodrive technical staff, mechanics or development.

How the hell did they expect do that?

[megz]

Hire the 3rd best driver in the world. Ralf Schumacher!

[scarbs]

I was disappointed to see Prodrive planned simply to run a McLaren with no Prodrive technical staff, mechanics or development.

How the hell did they expect do that?

By using McLaren staff, it seems to make a mockery of the whole idea of going racing as a team branded Prodrive.

[Carlos]

I agree scarbs, if they had any respect for F1 and were not in self deluding denial, I would be satisfied if they called it a Prodrive McLaren, until they design their own chassis and can proudly call it a Prodrive car... I suspect they are not going to ask my opinion...silly b ers.

That is if they were fortunate enough to get a McLaren chassis, there must be a few Arrows and Prost's in some warehouse... all the Prodrive schemers really deserve

Humour gentlemen, humour - The antecdote that services irritation.

[Conceptual]

I would be very much in favor of a compromise in this area. If the FIA wanted to reduce cost of manufacture, as well as increase the spectacle of racing, then there is a simple solution.

If the FIA were to make it mandatory that the top 3 WCC finishers release all of their technical drawings (aero) to the rest of the teams at the end of the season, you would see much better racing. I know, I know "But why would we spend $500M to just give it away???" The answer is "UNDERSTANDING".

If the teams released the drawings, but not the notes that tell WHY these items are there, you would only be revealing the solution, not the problem that it solves.

With the spy sagas, the blatant copying of visible parts as well as having only 2-3 competitive teams in a season, you would end up with "hybrid" philosophies. Sure, SA and Force India would benefit more this year than Ferrari, but if these teams finish in the top 3 next year, you would then gain access to THEIR solutions for your 2009 contender.

I know alot of purists wont agree with this idea, and that is OK since I dont get to make these rules a reality, but I watch F1 to watch these teams work TOGETHER to defeat the laws of physics. All that the team v. team competition really does is add incentive to invest more time/money into developing more efficient ways of achieving these rule bending philosophies.

It would save ALOT of team money as well as advance the technology even faster if the top 3 teams had to share their info with the entire paddock. Not to mention the fact that it would give us tech-nuts some GREAT off season reading and discussion!

Let me know what you think!

Chris