something to think about

[akbar21881]

i have no intention of saying that any team is cheating.this is just a few thing that is keep coming through my mind.

1. is it possible to manipulate the airflow leaving the diffuser and rear wing to make it impossible for the car behind to slipstream? i mean manipulating the airflow the make the car behind become unstable and hence impossible to outbrake tha car in front.due to aerodynamic limitation to the car behind,i think sooner or later someone will come up with idea to do this.

2. the minimum weight for the f1 car is 605kg,rite? do people weighted it only at the end of race. i'm just wondering whether there is a care out there that is racing with less than this minimum weight,especially when approaching the pitstop window.if so who's gonna know?

[felipezsc]

Ok. They check all the cars before and after the race. but about the wing thing...i relly dont know...havent really thought about that, good job! Uh, i guess its leagal. ?

[walter]

I think that it is impossible to create such a diffuser that would make any further negative effect on the cars than the effect that any such diffuser has on the cars in the back. It also depends on how close the cars are, the closer they are together, the more the effect will be, and at a distance of more that say 3 meters there is no way of really manipulating the air flow to gain an advantage over the rivals.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Humm.......well....an F1 minimum weight is 600kg with driver (and not 605 like mentioned...605kg the minimum weight of the F1 car is only 605kg after qualifying)...and the car is weighed without fuel (at least during scruteeniring on Thursday (before the weekend starts (Wednesday at Monaco))...during the weekend (after qualifying) and after the race!....so the car is always above the 600kg mark. And besides that teams cannot fill up the cars oil or water resevoirs during the race so it's impossible to be under weight durring a race.

The other question....about the diffuser...well...it isn't impossible....but....no one wants to try it...just because...probably a specially built diffuser to create turbulence will also create turbulence on the car the has it!!!! and this will mean that the rear of the car will be unstable!

Turbulence is caused by a non-linear airflow (turbulent airflow) and the best way to create turbulence is to alter the air pressure! and causing this change of air pressure may cause the difusser to stop working.....well I don't have time today but if someone wants me to elaborate....just ask!

[Duact]

Correct.
I don't think any team at all concentrates on turbulence for other cars behind. It's enough important to build the perfect rear wing.
But I should also mention that it's very hard to overtake a car in front even if the car behind is much faster. Especially on a track where allot of hard and-medium-curves and few straigts or highspeed corners exists. The reason is turbulence behind any rear wing on any car... correct me if I'm wrong!

[-shr3d-]

yes you are right on that point Duact, once a following car enters the turbulent air of the car in front it loses a certain percentage (you know the figure monstro??) of the downforce it can generate, especially on the front wing which in turn decrease front grip and causes understeer....
especially noticable on some turn such as the last corner at Melbourne and Spain where the car behind will enter the turn right behind the car in front by the exit of the corner they have dropped well back making overtaking so much harder.....

[Monstrobolaxa]

I'm not to sure about the numbers Sh3d.....but I would say it's possible to lose up to 80% of front winng downforce...well....this in the extreme case of being about 20cm behind the gear box of the car in front!!!!

But I not to sure....I'll look it up but for sure at least 35% of downforce is lost if you're travelling in the slip stream of the car in front! But I'll get back to you on that!!!!

[akbar21881]

just another thinking...

what is the regulation for "fixed-wing" on F1 car? From what I understand the front wing is subjected to a load applied to the endplates and it shouldnt bend downward.The same thing for the rear wing,the endplates is pulled backwards by certain forces and it shouldnt bend rearwards.

Is that all about fixed-wing regulation? What if the wing element itself moved,hence changing its angle of incidence while the endplates still in its original position?

I'm just wondering of the movable wing element is a loop hole in the regulation.the element does not necessarily moving,but is change in wing profile is detected by regulation.I'm asking because it is actually possible to make the wing change its profile from one to another due to multistable state of composite material,which the F1 car is made of.

I'm working on this stuff at the moment and hence I'm looking for possible application other than the aerospace industry(I'm doing aeronautic because of F1 not aircraft!! )

cheers

[-shr3d-]

hey akbar..

my rudimentary understanding on the regulations regarding this is that a regulation was bought in to ban any movable aerodynamic devices as part of the ban on ground effects cars with movable skirts but that there is also a regulation determining how much a said aerodynamic item can flex before it contravenes the rules...
i think it is safe to say that all F1 teams would be pushing this limit where possible... think of the huge advantage at monza to have the rear wing at one level of incidence through the fast corners and flattening out on the straights as speed increases and reducing drag.
might check http://www.fia.com to see if i can find the ruling.

[Monstrobolaxa]

got here to late to answer to the last question! lol