About rims...

[F1MissBliss]

"I look forward to using the search feature, but I dont know what specifically to search for " CHRIS
Why not wheels and suspension?
FIA/F1 Rules
10.1,10.2,10.3,1.14,1.5,12.3,12.4
Chris, that was so easy, just go to home page and click regulations. You owe me big time

[Conceptual]

Does anyone have a generic F1 front clip in AutoCAD? I'll do the work on it, but I dont have the basis that I would be convertring from.

Chris

Oh, thank you, Miss. See, delegation does work.

[Jersey Tom]

I sure wouldn't put one on a racecar.. particularly not without a suspension.

Tuning camber rates?? Weight transfer? Forget it.

[Tom]

tomislavp4 wrote

Here´s one more problem: the brake disc will hit the outher lip when moving up/down, so you´ll be forced to use smaller diameter discs...

Simple solution, inboard brakes, reduce some of the cars unsprung weight too. Or perhaps have the brakes outside the wheels, it would improve cooling alot.

[tomislavp4]

Yes but you´ll have 2 change banch of rules (talking about f1)

[Conceptual]

Yes but you´ll have 2 change banch of rules (talking about f1)

The rules seem to change every day anyways, so why is this such a big deal? And about brakes... Hydraulic drive systems dont need them at all.

If someone has a CAD file, I will do some work on it so at least we can see what it would look like.

Anyone have a link to one? Even a 2002 chassis, it doesnt have to be anything new...

Or should I ask McLaren for it?

[Carlos]

Used that F1T Search. Simple as tying my shoes. If anyone can't tye their shoes I certainly do not mean to offer any conceivable offense.

http://www.hobbygrandprix.com/modeling/ ... nuals.html

Hydraulic systems don't obey that motion and opposite motion conservation of motion thing? Really? ... doesn't that sort of suggest 'braking' Chris? ... Well, at least in this universe? Looking forward to your conversions of the F1 scale designs into CAD files. I admire the time and effort your willing to contribute to F1T and look forward to the illustrations. It'll make all those advanced concepts easier for us to ... get.

[Conceptual]

Used that F1T Search. Simple as tying my shoes. If anyone can't tye their shoes I certainly do not mean to offer any conceivable offense.

http://www.hobbygrandprix.com/modeling/ ... nuals.html

Hydraulic systems don't obey that motion and opposite motion conservation of motion thing? Really? ... doesn't that sort of suggest 'braking' Chris? ... Well, at least in this universe? Looking forward to your conversions of the F1 scale designs into CAD files. I admire the time and effort your willing to contribute to F1T and look forward to the illustrations. It'll make all those advanced concepts easier for us to ... get.

For some reason Carlos, I get this patronizing feeling every time I read one of your posts that are directed at me. Is there a problem? Or am I just reading into your sarcasm too much?

And I can't seem to find any CAD files on your link, just some hobby models. You tell me to search, and then post a link that has nothing to do with the subject. I sincerely don't understand what you are doing Carlos.

[Carlos]

The link is to model plans of F1 cars. They can be converted to CAD files
http://solid-line.qarchive.org/

Offer something to the forum. You want CAD files of F1 cars, make them. I don't use CAD tools but know enough about the programs that drawings can be scanned into them.

I supplied a source of material. That required an effort. You can supply effort and convert them into files.The model plans give you the basics. Consider other forum members comments without automatically rejecting them. It's not just what the forum can do for you, contribute to the forum. All your ideas are great and every suggestion or objection that doesn't fit is garbage.

To use a sports analogy Whenever your ideas aren't endorsed completely you say you'll take your ball and bat and go home. Step up to the plate. Bring something to the game. You don't like the rules of F1 and make a big deal about writing rules for a new formula and then produce nothing.
You go toe to toe wanting a whole new forum then nada.

Somebody comments about a rule and you want them to look it up. Make an effort. Look up the rules yourself. You dismiss the forum and the people that have given hundreds of hours of their time. Members politely refer you to other threads or suggest reading through the forum index. You agree thats a good suggestion. But you can't be bothered to. Why read when your stuff is just so world beating amazing. You want the nuts and bolts but can't be bothered with what other members have to say or what they contributed to the forum in the past. Before I joined the forum I read it from the bottom to the top out of respect for other's and their expertise.

" I would hate to make a different one and pull members from this forum. I'm sure that the owners would greatly dislike losing traffic and their sponsorship... " Chris - November 25th 2007

That post was irritating and certainly suspect. What did you think you were saying? It sounded like ' It's my way or the highway' to me. Who do you imagine you are and why should we offer you the time of day when you only offer insults and ultimatums? The only way I could read it was get in my face and I'll get in yours. Well you succeeded in crossing the line.

Frankly I don't like threats and tantrums. I respect this forum, it's members and the people that run it because of what they offer, what they have done. I can't see what you have contributed.

You talk about being banned from another forum. You constantly mention that you don't feel welcome here. Have you ever considered it's not the sites, not the forums, not everyone else? That it might have something to do with your attitude?

[Carlos]

You've drawn a line on the floor. Neither of us will step across it. No more comments from either of us. We have a gentleman's agreement. I'll stand by this deal as long as you do.

[Conceptual]

You've drawn a line on the floor. Neither of us will step across it. No more comments from either of us. We have a gentleman's agreement. I'll stand by this deal as long as you do.

I appreciate it. My life is not F1, nor is it F1 forum reading, so I thank you for agreeing that it is not my responsibility to read every available resource before asking questions.

Chris

[zenvision]

again Conceptual, another dig. Please, just swallow your pride and let it go. The forum could be such a paradise of information for anyone if you seach and ask the right questions. People give up their precious time to answer a questions so the minimum these people ask are that you reciprocate the effort and do some expanding research yourself.

[Ciro Pabón]

You ask a question, you get an answer (a long one, in my case... ).

I think the right answer is something like, yes, we've seen several "into-the-wheel" suspensions, like our own Manchild's patent (here described: Wheel with integrated supension), which evidently points in the same direction. Unfortunately, that thread has “lost” its images, but Manchild's drawings showed dampeners instead of spokes at the rim, if I remember well.

And no, I think it's not legal. Can anyone quote the exact regulation? F1MissBliss? Welcome, btw. I look forward to your second post.

On the other hand, thinking creatively, F1 cars already incorporate that idea, but it's hidden at first sight. I don't know how much of the total force on the car caused by bumps and changes in aerodynamic load is taken by the wheels, but I remember vaguely guessing a figure around 50%. Can anyone quote the exact figure or a source?

On the other other hand, there is a fundamental flaw in all ideas of suspension integrated in the wheel: most mechanics here will point that "non-suspended mass" (that is, mass into the wheels) must be minimized for better handling under load changes. Any such idea as integrated supension must prove that it deliver gains larger than what it makes the car lose, before much work is devoted to it.

I don't know how many will get this, at the end of the post, but, hey, there it goes:

Now, thinking about the question, as you can see in this sketch, the wheel works as a spring already, I just said that.



That image I took from Shock Absorbers and Heat Generation, a thread by Mikey_s. The tire is the spring at the bottom (the zigzag marked as Kt).

Of course, you need a dampener, besides the spring that is the wheel; you can see it in the image, marked as bs (good name, in view of the direction this thread took for a moment... ), but...

What if you could integrate somehow the dampeners into the wheel? I mean, into the fibers of the tire? What about a mesh that has a lot of friction "into it"? Would it work? Could the wall of the tyre dampen the car? That would be a complete suspension, without any other gadgets (well, btw, I would love for Conceptual to post an image, I can’t see the one he posted in the first post, to judge the “gadgetiness” of his idea… ).

For example, the well known Lunar Rover:



In first place: you can see the mesh that forms the walls of the tire, can you?

I’d like to mention this, en passant:

The wheels on the rover were made of wire mesh (piano wire) with titanium cleats for treads. The engineers did not use solid or air-filled rubber tires because they would have been much heavier.

1. Would be that legal? I mean, wire mesh tires? And 2. Can the mesh dampen the tire? Finally, (OOT) 3. Why aren't wire meshes used on Planet Earth? Would they make earthling tires lighter? (yes, yes, I know gravity and pressure are higher, I imagine the cost of this kind of tire, but...)

[Carlos]

Ciro -Maybe BAE would help out as a professional courtesy if asked what this sensor happened to measure?

…Trials to monitor the suspension of a Formula 1 car…load measurements on their car suspension components. …fixing such devices directly to suspension components has limited the accuracy…
http://www.baesystems.com/Businesses/Sh ... write.html - 28k

This video shows what magnitude of kinetic energy is involved - but no #'s
http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=oIXfftASHNk

Neither link is as informative as I'd like...

Manchild has done a lot of outstanding work. A patent. Admirable.

[ginsu]

What if you could integrate somehow the dampeners into the wheel? I mean, into the fibers of the tire? What about a mesh that has a lot of friction "into it"? Would it work? Could the wall of the tyre dampen the car? That would be a complete suspension, without any other gadgets (well, btw, I would love for Conceptual to post an image, I can’t see the one he posted in the first post, to judge the “gadgetiness” of his idea… ).

The purpose of a damper is to damp out linear or rotational motion by converting it to heat (either by viscous or sliding friction). While it would be neat to incorporate that into the tire, there would have to be something put in place to reject that excess heat. We already see tires overheat and blister in some races, so heat management seems to be a big issue for tires already, and I don't think they want to send any more heat into the tires than they have to.