Do you agree semi-automatic paddle shifters in F1 is better?

[theriusDR3]

Nowadays semi-automatic paddle shifters are now used for easy shifting. Manual stick shifters are difficult to operate because manual stick shifters are difficult to shift. That's my opinion

[knabbel]

It's just speed and stability, there is no manual gearbox that is as quick as the current seamless gearboxes. Also due to the seamless shifting there is a lot more balance in the car during the shift.

No I don't see any added value to return to a manual gearbox in F1

[DiogoBrand]

The only benefit I could see from a manual would be that it would highlight driver skill far beyond what we see now. Perfomance wise it's impossible for a manual to beat a sequential.

[wuzak]

The only benefit I could see from a manual would be that it would highlight driver skill far beyond what we see now. Perfomance wise it's impossible for a manual to beat a sequential.

You can have a manual sequential gearbox. Motorbikes have them. I believe Indycars have them. V8 Supercars have them.

[Just_a_fan]

Going back to manual shifting in an era of limited engines would be somewhat counterproductive. A missed shift buzzing an engine leading to earlier failure would mean teams would end up creating complicated systems to protect the engine.

A pointless retrograde step. Might as well suggest we go back to aluminium chassis with no driver protection. After all, skillful drivers won't crash will they?

[Ogami musashi]

The only benefit I could see from a manual would be that it would highlight driver skill far beyond what we see now. Perfomance wise it's impossible for a manual to beat a sequential.

You can have a manual sequential gearbox. Motorbikes have them. I believe Indycars have them. V8 Supercars have them.

Like always there's a confusion in what people call "manual shift" and "paddle", "semi automatic". The gear you use to shift must not be mistaken for the type of gearbox.

You can have a stick in a semi automatic gearbox as well as a paddle in manual sequential gearbox.

So for example motoGP has semi automatic (seamless shift as in F1 now) gearbox with foot lever, indycars have semi automatic paddle etc...


I understand that the OP wants a stick and a manual gearbox instead of semi auto whatever the mean of actuating. To me it is not a good thing with the type of F1 cars of today. Those are cars that have immense potential that needs to be extracted, a manual gearbox would prevent from exploiting the full potential of the car. The actual shifting technique may not be as graphic as before, but the actual timing of up/downshifting is critical to cornering performance.

As always with modern F1, the challenge is not anymore to control the car but to be able to exploit it, and that is far less apparent from the outside...

[J.A.W.]

The only benefit I could see from a manual would be that it would highlight driver skill far beyond what we see now. Perfomance wise it's impossible for a manual to beat a sequential.

You can have a manual sequential gearbox. Motorbikes have them. I believe Indycars have them. V8 Supercars have them.

AFAIR, W, motorcycles built with sporting intent dispensed with a manual ( hand) shifting box, well before WW2.

With the current electronics assist, G.P. bikes ( although still oddly enough, restricted to a maximum of 6 ratios) also only
require a manual clutch - at the start.

Some current showroom production bikes offer a 'paddle shift' option, like-wise.

[sosic2121]

I think direvers would hate manual box, IMO better drivers would be even better compared with drivers that buckle under pressure.
And if that's "too old" for F1 today and modern technologies and efficiency is most important, than CVT.

[J.A.W.]

However, it is notable that Porsche currently offer their real sporty 911R with an 'old timey' type stick-shift manual box.
This is purely for the tangible pleasure thereby derived by on request/select customers,
& admittedly, even at the 'cost' of a 'performance' penalty, compared to today's trick computer-assist transmissions.

[Tommy Cookers]

if we are thinking of non-sequential ie gate 'stick' shifters vs semi-automation of basically the same gearbox via paddles .... then ....
the stick has the advantage (99% of the time) of not being a slave to sequentiality eg 4 - N is better than 4 - 3 - 2 - N when stopping

if sosic's post was advocating CVT vs the present F1 gear system .....
conventional CVT has much greater losses than spur gears, imo outweighing its benefits in continuity of drive/continuity of ideal ratio matching
(ideal when sufficiently well controlled, as in cars since c.1991 but not in scooters etc)
ok the losses may be a bit lower in F1 as the required ratio range is less
also CVT is inherently a bulkier package

some low loss CVT functionality is available by combining a modulatable EMG with the ICE using epicyclic gearing, as in the Prius etc

btw - the stick/CVT mode as the MG F (and others?) must be the worst arrangement, actually reducing max performance (and economy)

[mzivtins]

The argument goes both ways...

Saying no to going back to fully manual shift, but not going for CVT is a contradiction almost.

What should really matter, is what is more fun to watch? CVT would sound boring... even worse than the horrible v6 formula (GP2 is where it's at on a race weekend)

Would it be more fun to watch manual shifts than the current solution? probably? who knows, subjective.

I love the older videos where we had full manual shifting, you could see easily who was pushing the limits further, not so much these days.

But then these days i love being able to see the short shifts (e.g: Out of turn 4 in Albert Park) its nice to see skilled torque control driving going on there.

Technologically speaking... CVT would make faster cars, and be more 'F1' but would be boring.

I think how it is these days is a great happy medium

[sosic2121]

Saying no to going back to fully manual shift, but not going for CVT is a contradiction almost.

Nicely said.
I don't like CVTs. I assume they are less efficient, but allow engine to be at peak power all the time. Which is faster? I don't know, but IMO that's a step forward.
Personally, I would bring back 3.0 v12(or any other arrangement) and manual gearbox

[strad]

A missed shift should be part of the game.

[SectorOne]

Are semi-automatic better then manual? Yes they are, and by a country mile.

Does it take more skill? Doubt it.

Does it require more work from the driver? Undoubtedly.