Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
rjsa
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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How's it that turbof1 has one + in this thread and I can't upvote somenoe?

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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rjsa wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
V10?

Why not v12 then?

Also, who are "we"? I personally don´t want that, Turbo neither so, who are we? Do you represent someone apart from yourself?
The "we" who you condescendingly accused of wanting meter long horns attached to the exhaust pipes. You got that figured out already, so why asking?
Nope, I replied your post asking for any sort of artificial sound amplifier, then you said "we" want v10s, when that´s only your opinion

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turbof1
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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bhall II wrote:
turbof1 wrote:I was referring to the specific Honda V10 in the picture, the RA109E.
In context, I'm pretty sure the image was posted more as "generic V10," not "RA109E"
Of course. But I still pointed towards the RA109E specifically ("that" V10) as the image is exactly that. I find it clear I was not posting within the broader context.

What you say is of course right: technology evolves and if a V10 was to be built with current technology and knowledge, it would be a lot more efficient for sure. However, it would also be a lot heavier as the FIA now mandates several minima, as well as the engine needs to hold for around 5 races.

And, my original point stands: there are more than enough race series with V8's and V10's. This concept of hybrid racing is quite unique (I believe WEC is the only other race series that does hybrid racing; correct me if I am wrong) and fascinating how much power they are getting despite that massive amounts of restrictions.
#AeroFrodo

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turbof1
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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rjsa wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
Actually, I don't. F1 currently is quite unique with its hybrid racing. There are tons of race series out there with a "size matters" attitude. F1 would be nothing special anymore with another simple engine spec. It is absolutely stunning to know the current PUs have over 900bhp opposed to that V10 which only has 680bhp, at probably half the fuel flow.

I gladly take reduced engine noise as a sacrifice for that. In return you got a more variated noise palette where you can hear the turbo whistling, the tyres creaking and the brakes working.

The only thing I lament in this story is that the FOM did not do anything to explain this to the public. Instead they treated the fans like potato bags with no brains. A forced implementation of showing the energy harvesting and deployment cycles to the people would for instance go a long way. Microphones with reduced filtering will also help.

I hope Liberty Media see these obvious avenues.
Lets agree to disagree.
Cheers. I can definitely understand the appeal of a roaring V10, but it's not getting my engine running so to speak :lol: .
#AeroFrodo

rjsa
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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Andres125sx wrote:
rjsa wrote:
Andres125sx wrote: V10?

Why not v12 then?

Also, who are "we"? I personally don´t want that, Turbo neither so, who are we? Do you represent someone apart from yourself?
The "we" who you condescendingly accused of wanting meter long horns attached to the exhaust pipes. You got that figured out already, so why asking?
Nope, I replied your post asking for any sort of artificial sound amplifier, then you said "we" want v10s, when that´s only your opinion
Me? Amplifier?Where?

Boy I must have been so drunk that I don't even remember starting to drink.

santos
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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Could we stop with the story of "we want the V8, V10, V12"? The times of thoose engines is over. It's been three years and the whinning about this engine is the same. Get over it.

rjsa
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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santos wrote:Could we stop with the story of "we want the V8, V10, V12"? The times of thoose engines is over. It's been three years and the whinning about this engine is the same. Get over it.
It's over until it isn't. If you don't like the discussion just steer clear.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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rjsa wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
rjsa wrote:
The "we" who you condescendingly accused of wanting meter long horns attached to the exhaust pipes. You got that figured out already, so why asking?
Nope, I replied your post asking for any sort of artificial sound amplifier, then you said "we" want v10s, when that´s only your opinion
Me? Amplifier?Where?

Boy I must have been so drunk that I don't even remember starting to drink.
Excuse me, I thought the initial post I replied was yours, but it´s not, it was McLaren111

You only assumed your opinion is the same as any other fan when you stated we want v10s. We don´t, at least if I´m included in that we. That´s the reason I asked who do you represent because at least with me you´re wrong

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turbof1
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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Ok, let's no go into symantics here. Let's just assume he meant people which are alligned with his vision.

Here's an idea for the record: if we apply the current PU but with 10 cylinders, what do you think would happen? Even if revving and fuel consumption went up appropiately, it would still be less noise than a normal V10 (yet bhp would go up by atleast 200bhp).

That's the real 'issue' today: hybrid technology has increased performance and efficiency signifantly through reduced wasted energy. Noise is depending on wasted energy. Not exactly what anybody active in F1 wants. Race tech and engine tech has changed, and with it racing itself. It's up to race fans if they can change their incentives for enjoyment of racing.
#AeroFrodo

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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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turbof1 wrote: And, my original point stands: there are more than enough race series with V8's and V10's. This concept of hybrid racing is quite unique (I believe WEC is the only other race series that does hybrid racing; correct me if I am wrong) and fascinating how much power they are getting despite that massive amounts of restrictions.
And how many of those of those racing series have real technical development and not a spec series of some terrible automotive cartel like GT racing has become?

rjsa
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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turbof1 wrote:Ok, let's no go into symantics here. Let's just assume he meant people which are alligned with his vision.

Here's an idea for the record: if we apply the current PU but with 10 cylinders, what do you think would happen? Even if revving and fuel consumption went up appropiately, it would still be less noise than a normal V10 (yet bhp would go up by atleast 200bhp).

That's the real 'issue' today: hybrid technology has increased performance and efficiency signifantly through reduced wasted energy. Noise is depending on wasted energy. Not exactly what anybody active in F1 wants. Race tech and engine tech has changed, and with it racing itself. It's up to race fans if they can change their incentives for enjoyment of racing.
My point is: as a consumer of F1, I don't care for the damage the hybrids did to the show. I'll never be back to a race track while this formula endures.

An active paying customer, with more than a couple rounds at Premium Paddock Clubs and a couple dozen GPs attended since I was 8, 40 years ago.

Do not count on my patronage. Zit. Nada.

That's my opinion about it and it's final. And like this I cease to be active in F1.

If I'm with a vanishing minority or a vanishing majority we will find out soon enough.

bhall II
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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turbof1 wrote:Of course. But I still pointed towards the RA109E specifically ("that" V10) as the image is exactly that. I find it clear I was not posting within the broader context.
Fair enough. But, I still think it's a bit disingenuous to compare, as representative, a state-of-the-art thing to a middling thing that was designed seven years before the end of an art that was itself terminated 14 years ago. That's kind of like condemning current power units, solely because 2014's versions produced a paltry ~750bhp, despite the MGU-K's "free" 160bhp, and they were so inefficient for their purpose that fuel deltas became absurd.
santos wrote:Could we stop with the story of "we want the V8, V10, V12"? The times of thoose engines is over. It's been three years and the whinning about this engine is the same. Get over it.
From the other side, I'd like to see someone acknowledge that their preferred vacuous marketing exercise is no more ideal than my preferred vacuous marketing exercise. :D

rjsa
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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bhall II wrote:
From the other side, I'd like to see someone acknowledge that their preferred vacuous marketing exercise is no more ideal than my preferred vacuous marketing exercise. :D
You're on a roll today :wink:

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turbof1
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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rjsa wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Ok, let's no go into symantics here. Let's just assume he meant people which are alligned with his vision.

Here's an idea for the record: if we apply the current PU but with 10 cylinders, what do you think would happen? Even if revving and fuel consumption went up appropiately, it would still be less noise than a normal V10 (yet bhp would go up by atleast 200bhp).

That's the real 'issue' today: hybrid technology has increased performance and efficiency signifantly through reduced wasted energy. Noise is depending on wasted energy. Not exactly what anybody active in F1 wants. Race tech and engine tech has changed, and with it racing itself. It's up to race fans if they can change their incentives for enjoyment of racing.
My point is: as a consumer of F1, I don't care for the damage the hybrids did to the show. I'll never be back to a race track while this formula endures.

An active paying customer, with more than a couple rounds at Premium Paddock Clubs and a couple dozen GPs attended since I was 8, 40 years ago.

Do not count on my patronage. Zit. Nada.

That's my opinion about it and it's final. And like this I cease to be active in F1.

If I'm with a vanishing minority or a vanishing majority we will find out soon enough.
That's fair. The fan of course is in his own right to decide to accept the change or not. Maybe I will think that myself if within 15 years F1 abolishes tyres and uses gravitational fields instead.

What I am wondering is if we had this schism in the past as well. Throughout the history of F1, there are dozens of rather abrupt changes, either through regulation or through revolutions caused by competitive evolution. One obvious example would be when cars suddenly started to sport wings during the 60s. I think a lot of people got turned off when the sleak bullet shaped cars suddenly started to sport sky benches.

Maybe these schisms are part of the natural evolution of F1. And evolution is in my mind part of F1. In my opinion, trying to fight that is fighting the nature of F1 itself. I think most of this is why F1 has been on the decline the last few years.
bhall II wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Of course. But I still pointed towards the RA109E specifically ("that" V10) as the image is exactly that. I find it clear I was not posting within the broader context.
Fair enough. But, I still think it's a bit disingenuous to compare
Oh but it is. It was not meant as an objective comparison for the record. Me saying "I find it stunning" inherently implies a subjective feeling towards it. Given the topic is about how you sense and enjoy F1, I felt it being appropiate.
#AeroFrodo

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SR71
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Re: Will the 17' cars rev higher or be louder?

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Can't wait until electric takes over and we can stop all this silly argument about the sound.

Easy to add mechanical or fake sounds to an electric car. Plus each manufacture can have a much more unique identity.