2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:03 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:21 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 pm
Also, what a drive by Alonso! But then, his interview after was quite pathetic.
Pathetic? Why?

He said he drove probably his best race ever. Imagine his frustration when that was only good for a 10th place, and not even that was achieved because of a car failure #-o :cry:


Pathetic is current McHonda situation, Alonso only express what any driver in his position would. Fair question here, what do you think Seb would have said in that situation? Think twice before posting please, we all have hear his complains for much less than that :wink:


I think people usually forget how frustrating must be Alonso situation. This was a 3-4 years proyect to fight for victories, we´re in third and after an awesome drive he was 10th to then retire. And you say he´s pathetic because of saying he can´t be happy with this result? #-o
I understand his tirade about Honda once during pre season as a tactic to put them under pressure by using the press but there's no need to malign them again and again. You're a fan of his, I understand but this is a terminal problem with him. It's not like he's kept his mouth shut for two years and now he's letting the toys out of the pram. He's been on it season after season. Whenever there's a result, it's his 'driving' and whenever it's doom and gloom it's either the team or the PU.

Your jibe at Vettel is hilarious. He's a cranky old nut on the track and complains a lot about the driving standards of his peers but I challenge you to show me one evidence of Vettel blaming/bitching about his own team. He stood by them all of last year and even in 2014 which was his worst year, he acknowledged Ricciardo and never blamed the team. Ever heard of a chap named Michael Schumacher? Never heard him bash his team. I always think before posting mate. Always.

Again, in my opinion, driving wise Alonso was the DOTD but his attitude is piss poor in terms of team spirit and team morale. It happened at Renault in his championship years, at McLaren, at Renault again, at Ferrari and now Honda. You might be the best driver in the world which I think he is, although he thinks he's a driving god but his tirades are getting boring and desperate. Almost seems like an attempt to stay in the news. Like I said, best driver in the world but if you can't build a good team around you, it's useless. And I don't think Alonso has learned.
So it´s Alonso who should build the team, not the team who should provide proper material.... :roll:

Sorry but disagree, they did several promises, wich did include fighting for victories this third season of the project. If you don´t deliver, be prepared for critics. This is F1 not an school playground

Anycase I know and agree Alonso can be harsh, rude, and extremely demanding, but you can´t ignore he´s demanding because the team can´t deliver what they did promise. Exactly the same wich happened in Ferrari with a car decreasing perfomance season by season

He wants everyone in the team performing, is that too demanding for current F1? :roll: As someone said, if you have a thin skin then F1 is not for you
Last edited by Andres125sx on Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CriXus
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Comparison of Vettel's and Hamilton's US stint.
Image
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw

santos
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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When Alonso says "he drove probably his best race ever"... i think about all the great races he made with Renault batling with Shumi, the races with Ferrari against Vettel and Hamilton. Last year he said the same thing after a race (wich i don't remember), my point is, he is saying that a few times... too many times.
Another thing from Mclaren... it's not just the engine that isn't performing well. The pit stop from Mclaren doesn't appear in the TOP 10 fastest.

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Thunder
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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fwiw Vettel and Alonso got a 10/10 in the AMuS Driver rating:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 49435.html
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:47 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:41 pm
Indeed, the hating for Alonso is as always.

Alonso did a stellar job in driving an impaired vehicle. I suggest you check out the full onboard shots of his race to see just what actually happened and why he was hampered and eventually had to forfeit.

Just how good Alonso is was readable on where he qualified his car and where he would have finished the race had his car had no technical issues, and especially, compare it to supposed 'new wonder' VanDoorne.

Alonso did nothing wrong, and actually put that car where it didnt belong. It's highly unfortunate he's not in a better car, the world is missing out on him not being in the top teams batteling.
i still hate to the guts how he didnt go to Mercedes when the opportunity arose.
I just love it when people say that.

A car has a top speed of 200 Km/Ph but the driver pushes the pedal so hard that he can clock 210 Km/Ph and beat his nearest rival who has a top speed of 210 Km/Ph but didn't have the balls to drive at that speed and my favourite driver pulled off a miracle.....
And I just hate when people say this, as if drivers should always get 100% of the car so that does not deserve any merit #-o

Best driver in F1 history, whatever he is, on his very best day, doing his best qualifying lap ever without any single mistake, will never get 100% of the car. There will always be some centimeter of track left at the entry or exit of some corner, or some kmh slower than possible at some apex, or he did break some centimeter sooner than possible at some point, always, even best driver in F1 history on his very best lap ever.

No driver has ever get 100% of his car, never, not even for a single lap. You´d need a robot for that and even so that robot would need live feedback about track conditions at each corner to know exact grip conditions before reaching the braking point.


So if we assume the average F1 driver (please don´t be fooled by the word average, we´re talking about F1 drivers so they´re the best on planet earth) can get 95% of his car, when some driver exceeds that and get 97%, even when he´s withing the car capabilities, we say he´s outperforming his car because no other driver would take that car that high, so he´s outperforming what most of the drivers in the grid would do with that car, and they´re far from useless drivers so outperforming them IMHO deserve some merit

Basically he´s not outperforming his car, but he´s outperforming what any other F1 driver would do with that car, so IMO that does deserve some merit you the "cars can´t be outperformed" brigade seems to negate


That´s the reason Ferrari said more than once Alonso was exceeding their most optimistic race simulations, because on those simulations there must be some margin for driver mistakes reducing that 100% of the car potential, but seems like Alonso managed to reduce that percentage less than the simulation programmers though were possible, hence Alonso outperforming his car (in fans words) or outperforming their most optimistic simulations (in Ferrari crew words)

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AnthonyG
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Thunders wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:20 pm
fwiw Vettel and Alonso got a 10/10 in the AMuS Driver rating:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 49435.html
What a crappy rating. Vandoorne gets a 5/10 due to his problems, Ricciardo a 4/10 due to his problems, but Grosjean an 8/10... due to his problems?


Full ratings:
Sebastian Vettel: 10/10
Lewis Hamilton: 9/10
Valtteri Bottas: 9/10
Kimi Räikkönen: 7/10
Max Verstappen: 9/10
Felipe Massa: 8/10
Sergio Perez: 8/10
Carlos Sainz: 8/10
Daniil Kvyat: 8/10
Esteban Ocon: 6/10
Nico Hülkenberg: 7/10
Antonio Giovinazzi: 9/10
Stoffel Vandoorne: 5/10
Fernando Alonso: 10/10
Kevin Magnussen: 3/10
Lance Stroll: 5/10
Daniel Ricciardo: 4/10
Marcus Ericsson: 5/10
Jolyon Palmer: 3/10
Romain Grosjean: 8/10
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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AnthonyG wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:38 pm
Thunders wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:20 pm
fwiw Vettel and Alonso got a 10/10 in the AMuS Driver rating:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 49435.html
What a crappy rating. Vandoorne gets a 5/10 due to his problems, Ricciardo a 4/10 due to his problems, but Grosjean an 8/10... due to his problems?


Full ratings:
Sebastian Vettel: 10/10
Lewis Hamilton: 9/10
Valtteri Bottas: 9/10
Kimi Räikkönen: 7/10
Max Verstappen: 9/10
Felipe Massa: 8/10
Sergio Perez: 8/10
Carlos Sainz: 8/10
Daniil Kvyat: 8/10
Esteban Ocon: 6/10
Nico Hülkenberg: 7/10
Antonio Giovinazzi: 9/10
Stoffel Vandoorne: 5/10
Fernando Alonso: 10/10
Kevin Magnussen: 3/10
Lance Stroll: 5/10
Daniel Ricciardo: 4/10
Marcus Ericsson: 5/10
Jolyon Palmer: 3/10
Romain Grosjean: 8/10
Ricciardo crashed in quali...
Grosjean qualified best of the rest and way above Magnussen

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Giblet wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:07 am
This thread is really more about the race we just saw and not so much about comparing drivers careers.
Well, yes it should, be but as well all know......... after the dust from the race as settled and there's nothing else to discuss it always resorts to being a Team & Driver fanboi fest :)

I for one have missed the race threads over the winter, not the sh!# fanboi bits obviously, I enjoy reading other people takes on how the race panned out, things I've missed or maybe misunderstood.

It's good to be back, I just hope the next race has more action and really give us something to talk about.

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Godius
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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DVB wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:44 am
The Red Bull seems to be doing great with that crap engine. They just played safe knowing Renault couldnt deliver the horse power. Watch out for Red Bull in the 2nd part of the season, they might drop a bunch of extra downforce things when the engine can deliver the horse power.
I believe that they aren't putting their cards on the table either, I also think that they are waiting for the required power to bolt on the aero parts. When you look at the circuits before the summer break then you can notice that there are many power-limited tracks on the calendar. Tracks after the summer break will be more suited foor good aero performance.

Yurasyk
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Godius wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:14 pm
I believe that they aren't putting their cards on the table either, I also think that they are waiting for the required power to bolt on the aero parts. When you look at the circuits before the summer break then you can notice that there are many power-limited tracks on the calendar. Tracks after the summer break will be more suited foor good aero performance.
I disagree. If you do not have enough power you try to compensate it by the more effective (less draggy) aero package. That is what RB did last 3 years.

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RZS10
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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According to AMuS there were five overtakes on track.

1. Stroll on Ericsson on completely new US tyres (was unable to pass a Sauber a few laps later US vs. S)

2. Perez on Sainz

3. Kvyat on Sainz (team order?)

4. Ocon on Alonso in his damaged car.

5. Hulkenberg on Alonso in his breaking car.
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Silent Storm
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:35 pm
That´s the reason Ferrari said more than once Alonso was exceeding their most optimistic race simulations, because on those simulations there must be some margin for driver mistakes reducing that 100% of the car potential, but seems like Alonso managed to reduce that percentage less than the simulation programmers though were possible, hence Alonso outperforming his car (in fans words) or outperforming their most optimistic simulations (in Ferrari crew words)
They used to say the same thing about Raikkonen that he was faster than their simulations.
I remember Stella saying in some interview that he was quite faster than the simulations in the high speed tracks/sections and Schumacher was similarly fast in the low speed, both faster than the simulations.
Alonso was also faster than simulations in the technical parts of the track like Schumacher.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:27 pm
According to AMuS there were five overtakes on track.

1. Stroll on Ericsson on completely new US tyres (was unable to pass a Sauber a few laps later US vs. S)

2. Perez on Sainz

3. Kvyat on Sainz (team order?)

4. Ocon on Alonso in his damaged car.

5. Hulkenberg on Alonso in his breaking car.
Sainz let Kvyat to pass him because of team orders.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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So without team orders or damaged cars, two overtakes on the whole race

Even when Melbourne is a special track, this does not look too encouraging

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:43 pm
So without team orders or damaged cars, two overtakes on the whole race

Even when Melbourne is a special track, this does not look too encouraging
Yeah, as I have mentioned this reminds me 2000s F1. Battles can be interesting because drivers can push but just imagine yesterday´s race without Hamilton chasing Verstappen or Vettel putting some pressure on Lewis...