Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[JuanjoTS]

This character does not have the slightest idea, I do not understand why he can put negative points an ignorant, to which a variation in diameter is a cylinder of 2mm (80mm +/- 1mm) it seems that it is not significant (2,5%) And he orders me to read the regulations.

You better read the Regs you posted one post later. It's 0.2mm (80mm +/- 0.1mm).

Oh and could you use the Edit posts function to extend your Posts? No need to make a new post for every new thought.

I can not find the function to delete the message. The fact is that there is variation, not all engines are identical.

[PhillipM]

That may be as simple as the forces in 1st and second gear being lower due to being traction limited.

[dren]

True, but we're still stuck on why only on the upshifts.

[godlameroso]

Maybe since the revs climb slower in the taller gears the phenomenon has more time to manifest itself.

The engine stays in the range long enough in higher gears where it starts causing problems.

Or maybe it's just a bunch of compressor surge because pressure waves are bouncing back and forth past the compressor and air metering device. So at part throttle, ie during upshifts, the bouncing pressure waves are distorting the signal from the air metering device(MAP or MAF I never got an answer) and by consequence fuel injection is being affected.

Wild speculation mode:
What if, ultrasonic vibrations caused by the pre-chamber resonance are vaporizing gasoline much like high frequency oscillators are used in humidifiers to vaporize water. This in turn causes combustion instabilities at a certain rpm range, in other words, combustion happens at a nice normal predictable level until you get to a certain RPM range where combustion happens faster because of the fuel vapors caused by the frequency.

[dren]

but any element of repetition in surge around this frequency can be even worse than the 'worst-case' - by what we might call resonant amplification
this could occur by any imperfection in co-ordination of a whole lot of actions that need perfect co-ordination (for shifting)

The shifting happens so quick that wouldn't any amplification of the surge you talk about be marginal?

As for the cylinder cut out, Honda's J-series has a noticeable vibration when it changes. The motor mounts are designed to absorb running on fewer cylinders and I think there's noise cancellation to go with the change in vibrations. They'll shift from 6 to 4 to 3 cylinder operation.

[godlameroso]

but any element of repetition in surge around this frequency can be even worse than the 'worst-case' - by what we might call resonant amplification
this could occur by any imperfection in co-ordination of a whole lot of actions that need perfect co-ordination (for shifting)

The shifting happens so quick that wouldn't any amplification of the surge you talk about be marginal?

As for the cylinder cut out, Honda's J-series has a noticeable vibration when it changes. The motor mounts are designed to absorb running on fewer cylinders and I think there's noise cancellation to go with the change in vibrations. They'll shift from 6 to 4 to 3 cylinder operation.

The J35 from the Accord 2008-2012 had a notorious oil burning problem because of their cylinder cutting, I've made a lot of money replacing piston rings on these engines. The cylinder cutting would cause the lower oil control ring to sludge up, and somehow force the upper control ring gap to line up with the bottom one, once that happens the engine would start burning massive quantities of oil. That and the factory torque spec for the spark plugs was too low, even the updated 18ft lbs was too low for new plugs with a fresh crush washer. The plug would start backing out and take out the cylinder(probably from cylinder cutting vibrations).

Since then all plugs on Hondas get torqued to 24ft lbs, I know that value is safe because on a spare head I've tested how much the threads will take before they break. 74ft lbs, and it's not the head that gets damaged but the spark plug.

[JuanjoTS]

Look what I found...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016 ... nders.html

[Craigy]

Look what I found...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016 ... nders.html

That's not permitted under F1 regs.

[Wil992]

Unless I'm missing something, that link refers to an patent for an engine design with variable displacement?

If that's the case, then it's not allowed..

ARTICLE 5 : POWER UNIT 5.1 Engine specification :
5.1.1 Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted.
5.1.2 Engine cubic capacity must be 1600cc (+0/-10cc).

[godlameroso]

Not engine related but not getting enough sleep while constantly under pressure and stress is a quick way to burn yourself out with cortisol poisoning. Under such a state the mind is not capable of perceiving clearly. Over time it causes the brain to atrophy.

Maybe overworking yourself is less effective in the long run because you can do more at 100% in half the time than you can at 40% with double the effort.

[3jawchuck]

Not engine related but not getting enough sleep while constantly under pressure and stress is a quick way to burn yourself out with cortisol poisoning. Under such a state the mind is not capable of perceiving clearly. Over time it causes the brain to atrophy.

I'm jiggered then.

Are you alluding to Honda people working too hard?

[godlameroso]

Not engine related but not getting enough sleep while constantly under pressure and stress is a quick way to burn yourself out with cortisol poisoning. Under such a state the mind is not capable of perceiving clearly. Over time it causes the brain to atrophy.

I'm jiggered then.

Are you alluding to Honda people working too hard?

Definitely, did you ever play with legos as a kid? Where you spend hours looking for that one piece, then when you stop looking for it you find like 6 of them?

Similarly maybe thinking too hard about a problem is counter productive. To think the unthinkable one must first stop thinking.

[3jawchuck]

Not engine related but not getting enough sleep while constantly under pressure and stress is a quick way to burn yourself out with cortisol poisoning. Under such a state the mind is not capable of perceiving clearly. Over time it causes the brain to atrophy.

I'm jiggered then.

Are you alluding to Honda people working too hard?

Definitely, did you ever play with legos as a kid? Where you spend hours looking for that one piece, then when you stop looking for it you find like 6 of them?

Similarly maybe thinking too hard about a problem is counter productive. To think the unthinkable one must first stop thinking.

I was more of a Meccano child but yeah I know the idea. It wouldn't surprise me Honda workers being overworked. They're under a hell of a lot of pressure. But, surely the company has a health care system in place and the know how to get the best out of their workers and spot fatigue?

[JuanjoTS]

Unless I'm missing something, that link refers to an patent for an engine design with variable displacement?

If that's the case, then it's not allowed..

ARTICLE 5 : POWER UNIT 5.1 Engine specification :
5.1.1 Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted.
5.1.2 Engine cubic capacity must be 1600cc (+0/-10cc).

Maybe they are trying this without changing the displacement? Could explain this the excessive vibrations of the engine for not having been able to tune the operation?

"The new technology could offer more than four different total displacements working at the same time, with a smaller gap between each of them. Given four cylinders of varying sizes, there are a total of 15 different combinations of one-to-four cylinders firing. Yes, that essentially means an engine could have 15 different displacements working at a time."

[Wil992]

How can you have a different displacement without changing the displacement?

That's nonsense.