Driver styles/preferences

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Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by Wass85 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:43 am

Hamilton has always been labelled a wild driver but in reality these last few years he's been super smooth IMO.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 am

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:18 pm
I've always longed for an interview where a driver is asked about his strong points and his weak points regarding his driving style.

I mean what can't a certain driver replicate what his teammate can do? With today's telemetry and engineering how much do they understand about their drivers?
I asked Hulkenburg this very same question once.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

flmkane
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by flmkane » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:08 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:18 pm
I've always longed for an interview where a driver is asked about his strong points and his weak points regarding his driving style.

I mean what can't a certain driver replicate what his teammate can do? With today's telemetry and engineering how much do they understand about their drivers?
I asked Hulkenburg this very same question once.
Did he answer?

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:16 am

Yes. Why wouldn't he lol

Said his style is consistent, aggressive and very adaptable so he never has tyre heating issues.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Sevach
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by Sevach » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:37 am

Wass85 wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:43 am
Hamilton has always been labelled a wild driver but in reality these last few years he's been super smooth IMO.
I think he's aggressive when he's fighting for the lead of a GP, but he's certainly technical when it comes to hotlapping.

Combining aggression with technique is a trait of the greats, Ayrton, Michael... Exuberance alone doesn't reach the next level.

Wass85
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by Wass85 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:27 am

Is it just me or has anybody else noticed on his onboards that when he's chasing somebody his line is completely different from his rivals?

He turns in very early and doesn't look like he's using all of the circuit and the correct line, is this just the way he drives or is he purposely doing it to try and avoid the turbulence?

https://youtu.be/Hs-ac4GOK3M

Here it does it mainly in the last corner at Turkey.


https://youtu.be/CsjfvBjcAJ4

Here again at turn 9 chasing Alonso at Magny-Cours.

I will find more soon.

NYGIANTS
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by NYGIANTS » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:58 pm

Wass85 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:27 am
Is it just me or has anybody else noticed on his onboards that when he's chasing somebody his line is completely different from his rivals?

He turns in very early and doesn't look like he's using all of the circuit and the correct line, is this just the way he drives or is he purposely doing it to try and avoid the turbulence?

https://youtu.be/Hs-ac4GOK3M

Here it does it mainly in the last corner at Turkey.


https://youtu.be/CsjfvBjcAJ4

Here again at turn 9 chasing Alonso at Magny-Cours.

I will find more soon.
its turbulence but also his driving style. i think it was peter windsor that talked about it, lewis will brake later and bleed the brakes going into a turn and take a shallower line that reduces the arc of the racing line, which also allows him to get on power sooner and keep the tires contact patch more neutral.

Crusse
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by Crusse » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:28 am

Vettel seems to overlap throttle and brake a bit at turn-in, whereas Räikkönen doesn't:

https://youtu.be/viFRPHspvN4?t=1m57s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQCzX7hmXMU

Can also be seen to a lesser extent in the Bahrain race, where Vettel overlaps pedal inputs in the last few turns: https://youtu.be/f_BVXf0331A?t=1m3s

Would be interesting to know what's the main motivation to do this. To temporarily emulate a brake bias that's a bit more to the front, or to lock of the rear diff -- or just a remnant from the blown diffuser days?

SuperCNJ
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by SuperCNJ » Wed May 10, 2017 2:10 pm

A few weeks ago there was a video by Driver61 on youtube which showed a detailed analysis of the qualifying lap between Hamilton and Vettel at Australia but was shortly taken down as it included footage that thhe didn't have the right to use. But I managed to watch it before it was taken down and it was quite interesting.

Despite Hamilton's reputation as being the latest of the late brakers and that a lot of his speed is gained through his ability to brake later than others, in the analysis by Scott Mansell, it clearly showed that Vettel was not only braking later than him, but by quite a lot. Now, I understand that they are in different cars and that the Ferrari may have characteristics that allow it to brake later than a Mercedes but the difference in some corners were quite significant. It really surprised me and made me wonder why this was.

Did any one else manage to watch this video and any views on this?

marmer
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by marmer » Wed May 10, 2017 2:48 pm

SuperCNJ wrote:A few weeks ago there was a video by Driver61 on youtube which showed a detailed analysis of the qualifying lap between Hamilton and Vettel at Australia but was shortly taken down as it included footage that thhe didn't have the right to use. But I managed to watch it before it was taken down and it was quite interesting.

Despite Hamilton's reputation as being the latest of the late brakers and that a lot of his speed is gained through his ability to brake later than others, in the analysis by Scott Mansell, it clearly showed that Vettel was not only braking later than him, but by quite a lot. Now, I understand that they are in different cars and that the Ferrari may have characteristics that allow it to brake later than a Mercedes but the difference in some corners were quite significant. It really surprised me and made me wonder why this was.

Did any one else manage to watch this video and any views on this?
Didn't get chance to watch

Could braking distance be affected by differences in speed if merc gas better engine it may well be going slightly faster and would have to brake sooner to lose the addition speed

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SuperCNJ
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by SuperCNJ » Wed May 10, 2017 3:00 pm

marmer wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 2:48 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:A few weeks ago there was a video by Driver61 on youtube which showed a detailed analysis of the qualifying lap between Hamilton and Vettel at Australia but was shortly taken down as it included footage that thhe didn't have the right to use. But I managed to watch it before it was taken down and it was quite interesting.

Despite Hamilton's reputation as being the latest of the late brakers and that a lot of his speed is gained through his ability to brake later than others, in the analysis by Scott Mansell, it clearly showed that Vettel was not only braking later than him, but by quite a lot. Now, I understand that they are in different cars and that the Ferrari may have characteristics that allow it to brake later than a Mercedes but the difference in some corners were quite significant. It really surprised me and made me wonder why this was.

Did any one else manage to watch this video and any views on this?
Didn't get chance to watch

Could braking distance be affected by differences in speed if merc gas better engine it may well be going slightly faster and would have to brake sooner to lose the addition speed

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
Perhaps, but I don't think the speed difference between the ferrari and merc were that great to warrant such a large difference in braking positions, particularly as Hamilton is supposed to be one of the latest brakers.

TAG
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by TAG » Wed May 10, 2017 3:26 pm

Different cars are going to require different driving styles. I recall seeing the video, and it was clear that the Merc was on the throttle way earlier, apples and oranges. There was more correction from Vettel and more understeer from Hamilton, in the end the Merc was on pole there.
Countdown to 91: 10 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

GPR-A
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by GPR-A » Wed May 10, 2017 3:38 pm

SuperCNJ wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 2:10 pm
A few weeks ago there was a video by Driver61 on youtube which showed a detailed analysis of the qualifying lap between Hamilton and Vettel at Australia but was shortly taken down as it included footage that thhe didn't have the right to use. But I managed to watch it before it was taken down and it was quite interesting.

Despite Hamilton's reputation as being the latest of the late brakers and that a lot of his speed is gained through his ability to brake later than others, in the analysis by Scott Mansell, it clearly showed that Vettel was not only braking later than him, but by quite a lot. Now, I understand that they are in different cars and that the Ferrari may have characteristics that allow it to brake later than a Mercedes but the difference in some corners were quite significant. It really surprised me and made me wonder why this was.

Did any one else manage to watch this video and any views on this?
Drivers evolve over a period of time with respect to their driving styles. Moreover, different tracks require different approaches to get the best out of the cars.

Specifically speaking of Australian GP, I posted some screen captures from a video that Juhzh had made. A Comparison of Lewis and Vettel's quali laps.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26102&p=686909#p686901
What I had observed was that, while Lewis was breaking early, but was coming out of the corner with better speed compared to Vettel. Whereas Vettel was going deep at the corner entry and was exiting it with relatively less speed compared to Lewis. That means, while Vettel was gaining some time at corner entry, Lewis was regaining that time back at the corner exit. That was the case for the whole of the lap.

Like I mentioned, different tracks require different approaches, specifically based on the characteristics of the car that a driver is driving. Long straights offer a bigger premium on late breaking IF the corner at the end of a straight is not a chicane (a right and a quick left), like that was in Australia.

Here is another instance that I had posted on last year's Italian GP thread.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=24782&p=654770#p654770

Image

This is a picture at the Ascari chicane. Left is a picture of Hamilton and the right is of Nico. You can see that Lewis quickly goes off the break (red trace) and right at the beginning of the apex (green trace), goes on throttle. Whereas Nico holds on to the breaks longer (red trace) and goes on throttle at the middle of the chicane (green trace).

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed May 10, 2017 4:51 pm

That was a Godly lap by Hamilton. The car was dancing over the chicanes. Haven't seen that sort of agility since 2008. It was like perfect harmony with car and driver.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Silent Storm
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by Silent Storm » Wed May 10, 2017 8:21 pm

That early braking and carrying more speed into the corners and getting back on power earlier was something Kimi was known for at his peak.

I can see Vettel braking late but his driving style is more around the quick rotation of the car and getting back on the power early. I remember years ago I read a article on the old F1 website where red bull brought a new rear suspension with bump oversteer for quicker rotation at the apex so Vettel could rotate the car quicker and get on power early.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.