2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[i70q7m7ghw]

Also, in a court of law, you are guilty of careless driving or dangerous driving regardless of what you thought or meant to do i.e. if you did it on purpose or not. If the act is deemed careless/dangerous then you are guilty of that act.

The rules on the race track are obviously different, but I think the same logic should apply.

[turbof1]

Again, it doesnt explain his post race interview about being men when asked if this action was deliberate or not by Channel 4.

And now we are properly discussing!

[NathanOlder]

Hamilton needs a penalty at the next race, this is not the first time he has slowed down abruptly. It has been a feature all through is career, repeatedly warned for not being aware of other cars behind.

This was a case of him trying to back Vettal into Perez gone wrong, needs a penalty.

Almost fell over reading this. Why so bitter. Brakes need warming as do tyres.

Oh stop repeating the same thing over and over again... yes vettel deserved a penalty for hitting hamilton , but hamilton has to be taken to task for drastically slowing right after the apex on an up hill semi blind corner... that was the absolute dumbest place to do what he did.He did it knowing vettel was close behind him.

Then if that super dangerous corner was a silly place to do it, how effing stupid does it make Vettel look for being so close in that very dangerous corner. He must have nearly added his name to the huge list of fatalities at that danger zone.

Hamilton was doing what everyone elae was doing, just accept you man screwed up and then behaved worae than a spoilt 5yr old girl. And thats being harsh on girls.

[Unc1eM0nty]

Seb did not actually turn the steering wheel, so you need to look at the frontal view. The rear of the Ferrari stepped out and caused the car to swing into Hamilton.

Just watched again and that's not how I see it, he pulls sharply to his left, he then rolls up alongside, there's then a 2nd
completely separate movement where he moves sharply to his right and makes contact, prior to this he was driving straight for a good few meters. It looks deliberate, I can't see how a 4 times world champion could loose control driving in a straight line at 40 / 50kph ?

[iotar__]

What's there to argue about material world events? Both deserved a penalty:

- Vettel one step bigger, inexplicably stupid behaviour and blatant retaliation. Childish and pointless.

- Hamilton for brake testing/dangerous driving/SC collision. His eyes firmly on the rear-view mirrors and his foot on the brake pedal at the right time. I guess it's hard to unlearn slowing down on purpose as a manner of racing. Abu Dhabi, Bahrain-Ricciardo and now this.

No penalty because Whiting still likes him more but this time randomness aka karma intervened.

[nevill3]

In the onboard it shows Hamilton's brake light flickered momentarily as he negotiated the corner but it appears he just did not accelerate. Vettel should at least receive a reprimand fir this, it sets a very poor example to others.

Small correction for you...there is no brake light on f1 cars. Ham was harvesting electricity, but yes I agree that vet needs a post race penalty of some sort as well, preferably points and maybe even grid demotions next race

The brake light I was referring to was the one on the TV screen on the onboard camera shots with the graphics on the left. It clearly shows which gear, speed and whether accelerating or braking. Check the onboard footage if you can, how would a member of this technical forum not know that F1 cars do not have brake lights

[ringo]

Yes its deliberate. He used his right hand to tug the steering to ram hamilton.

[Phil]

Again, it doesnt explain his post race interview about being men when asked if this action was deliberate or not by Channel 4.

And now we are properly discussing!

I'd repost the interview word for word, but unfortunately i am on my mobile. It was on Channel 4, post race.

Quite disturbing. I would have expected him, if not deliberate, to say so. Even over the radio when told about his stop and go, his response was "my dangerous driving?". It just doesnt IMO seem credible to assume the hard swipe to the right into his competitors car was in any way not deliberate if you ask me.

[McL-H]

Vettel was brilliant. Hamilton purposely braked in the middle of the corner, to a point where he almost stood still. It cost Vettel his front wing and he was rightfully angry. It's the clearest example of a brake test. I understand he had to be penalised for what he did thereafter, but I absolutely loved the fighting mentality. It reminds me a lot of Schumacher! He would probably have done the same thing out of anger.

So, I agree with the 10 second stop & go. Because you can't let it go unpunished. But I have no issue with what he did. Comparable to what Rossi did to Marquez in Malaysia.. Pure anger, and Marquez had it coming. Don't make it bigger than it is. It's not an attempt to murder. I love to see this. Sport, emotion, rivalries. Moments like these are good for the sport imo.

Hamilton should have been awarded a penalty too though. It was a clear brake test in the middle of the corner. Both should have been penalised.

[dans79]

BUT, if side swiping another car on purpose only gets you 10 seconds, I guess what Hamilton did doesn't even warrant a penalty, so I guess justice was served?

Even if he didn't do it intentionally, taking your hand off the wheel so you could gesture at another driver and then loosing control of your car and hitting them would warrant a penalty. It could be considered unsafe driving, or failing to avoid an avoidable accident.

[Restomaniac]

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

The discussion revolves around the first bump into eachother. Obviously, that was incidental. There are 2 important questions to ask:
-Did Hamilton brake or otherwise slowed down after the corner? Up until now a lot of people assumed he did, but I personally have rewatched the replay numerous times and I don't really see any visible slowing down of Hamilton's car. Either how, some solid evidence or arguments have to be brought forward to stave that.
-Assuming Hamilton did, was or entitled to it or not? After, all he does determine the pace. Unless it can be classified as dangerous driving, and people involved here need to start giving decent arguments for it instead of just trying to pass it as evident, I think this is within what he is allowed to do, what others in his position are allowed to do, and what others have done in the past.

What about the argument Vettel should have kept enough distance to not run into Hamilton? I can't speak for other countries, but in Belgium you are at fault if you run into a car in front on the road, even if said car braked heavily. You have to keep a certain distance to react in time. I don't see how this is different in a low speed SC situation.

I'm sorry but it's nothing of the kind. Some on this very thread have tried to make out that it wasn't intentional. That isn't my misinterpretation it's exactly what they were trying to say. Instead on jumping on my post perhaps you could correct them?

Some made a case for he slipped the wheel while frantically waving at Hamilton, when Vettel hit Hamilton in the side. I feel it's being implied by those that still makes Vettel at fault in the second hit. I think it's worth discussing that, although I personally don't think that is the case (that it was "none-intentional"). Either, being unbiassed involves exploring all the options.

If anyone sees that footage and sees anything other that an intentional act then they are looking at it with a bias. I cannot believe you are even trying to argue otherwise.

[henra]

Ham was dangerous, he went round the corner in 2nd and dropped to first on exit.

If that were the case a 5 place starting grid penalty for Lewis for the next race would be due. I assume stewards will be checking his telemetry.

[ripper]

In my opinion VET deserved to be punished, I don't know about HAM but I think he slowed down too much, how don't know if it can be considered dangerous. On Italian SKY broadcast they showed that Lewis went from 80 km/h to 50 (49 to be precise) and didn't accelerate after, that's when VET touched him on the rear and went in killing spree. I expected more composture from a german, we italians are supposed to go mad when something happens

[dans79]

Ham was dangerous, he went round the corner in 2nd and dropped to first on exit.

If that were the case a 5 place starting grid penalty for Lewis for the next race would be due.

Based on what rule exactly?

Drivers can use any gear the please and based on the speed they where going first gear if a perfectly valid option.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The brake light I was referring to was the one on the TV screen on the onboard camera shots with the graphics on the left. It clearly shows which gear, speed and whether accelerating or braking. Check the onboard footage if you can, how would a member of this technical forum not know that F1 cars do not have brake lights

I've taken a look at the footage shown in the race and none of the onboard videos show telemetry including accel/brake usage. Can you screenshot the footage you have to show the telemetry showing Hamilton braked so we can put this think to rest?