2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
If rumors of STR changing to Honda next year pan-out I think it would be wise for Sainz to stay at STR.

For me that would indicate a potential RB-Honda works partnership and Sainz having experience with Honda at STR would greatly benefit him if he moves to the mothership.

He should also learn from a certain other Spainard about good things coming to those who wait.
Which good things? :mrgreen:

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:20 am
SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
If rumors of STR changing to Honda next year pan-out I think it would be wise for Sainz to stay at STR.

For me that would indicate a potential RB-Honda works partnership and Sainz having experience with Honda at STR would greatly benefit him if he moves to the mothership.

He should also learn from a certain other Spainard about good things coming to those who wait.
Which good things? :mrgreen:
Dollaz $$$$$$$$$ :lol:
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
’16 RB Stalling rear wing
F1T consensus: NO
SR71 : YES
Winner: SR71

’17 Merc Spain update aimed at improving dirty air performance
F1T consensus: NO
SR71: YES
Winner: SR71
i know this is offtopic and signatures aren't the most 'serious' things to notice but........

#-o #-o #-o
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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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ME4ME wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:23 am
Both drivers have messed up multiple times this season. Sainz in Bahrain and Canada. Kyvat in Austria and Silverstone (maybe more, i don't remember). Bottom line is these drivers should know by now that it's vitally important for them to finish each race and bring points to the team. Toro Rosso aims to be fifth. Also it is a fundamental requirement in order to drive for a top team such as Red Bull.
IMHO you can´t compare those incidents. In Bahrein Sainz was simply too optimistic when Stroll didn´t see him, and in Canada that was a first lap incident wich happens from time to time. Those were mistakes by Sainz, period, but they´re very different to fighting too aggresively with your team mate, losing control of your car while trying to overtake at a VERY difficult point, and crashing with him ruining the whole team GP

Every driver on the grid makes mistakes, but there are very different mistakes. Crashing with your team mate can´t be compared with any other

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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:20 am
SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
If rumors of STR changing to Honda next year pan-out I think it would be wise for Sainz to stay at STR.

For me that would indicate a potential RB-Honda works partnership and Sainz having experience with Honda at STR would greatly benefit him if he moves to the mothership.

He should also learn from a certain other Spainard about good things coming to those who wait.
Which good things? :mrgreen:
Hindsight is great and now we can see it different, but signing in with Ferrari after two depressive seasons in Renault 2008 and 2009 I´d say is a good thing :wink:

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
He should also learn from a certain other Spainard about good things coming to those who wait.
When I read that comments from Sainz my first reaction was the same, but then something came to my mind... Alguersuari.

Maybe you were refering to that Spaniard :mrgreen: who was fired without any previous comment by the team when next season grid was almost closed, so he had no free seat to fight for. When you notice this, and the fact STR has never renewed any driver for his 4th season and 2018 will be 4th for Carlos, then I perfectly understand his comments. He was afraid of getting surprised with a late decision of not renewing him, so he was just asking around his future to figure it out :)

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:06 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:20 am
SR71 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:44 am
If rumors of STR changing to Honda next year pan-out I think it would be wise for Sainz to stay at STR.

For me that would indicate a potential RB-Honda works partnership and Sainz having experience with Honda at STR would greatly benefit him if he moves to the mothership.

He should also learn from a certain other Spainard about good things coming to those who wait.
Which good things? :mrgreen:
Hindsight is great and now we can see it different, but signing in with Ferrari after two depressive seasons in Renault 2008 and 2009 I´d say is a good thing :wink:
I thought he was speaking about the present/future. Yes, back in 2009 it looked like a good idea to sign with Ferrari. And well, he fight for the championship in 2010 and 2012 so it was not that bad.

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ME4ME
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:04 pm
IMHO you can´t compare those incidents. In Bahrein Sainz was simply too optimistic when Stroll didn´t see him, and in Canada that was a first lap incident wich happens from time to time. Those were mistakes by Sainz, period, but they´re very different to fighting too aggresively with your team mate, losing control of your car while trying to overtake at a VERY difficult point, and crashing with him ruining the whole team GP

Every driver on the grid makes mistakes, but there are very different mistakes. Crashing with your team mate can´t be compared with any other
In my opinion Sainz' accidents where much worse from a driver point of view. In both instances, especially Canada he showed a clear lack of awareness and insight reminiscent of Grosjean in his worst years. Kvyat was just clumsy.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Sainz accident in Canada was the same as Alonso with Kimi in Suzuka start in... 2012? Would you say Alonso showed a clear lack of awareness and insight?

First lap accident are usually judged very gently for a reason, on a start you must focus on the cars in front of you and hope the cars at your back will focus on you, then there´s the rule saying a car with his front wing alongside your rear wheels must be left some space wich makes this sort of incidents responsability of the car in front, but to me this is a contradictory rule.

Legally, it´s responsability of the car in front so it was Sainz responsability, ok. But you can´t compare that to an accident on lap >10 when fighting with your team mate, and only with your team mate, and crashing with him. Clumsy? yes, of course, but also irresponsible for going blind attack mode against the only car you must respect as it´s paid by your own team


You can´t seriously compare both accidents


Also, compare both STR drivers behaviour when his team mate is around... Kvyat go blind mode and crash with Sainz (Silverstone) while Carlos will spin himself while trying to avoid a contact with his team mate (Austria). Can´t be compared.

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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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I wouldn't be surprise to see a Honda PU in 2018. :wink:

Both parties was working overtime on a deal at Silverstone.

Sauber/Honda partnership deal was dead(just no official PR) after the first meeting with Sauber's owner after the team boss was fired.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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TR with Honda sounds interesting. Imagine if the 2018 engine is a beast and they beat RedBull and fight for the top 5.

Quite frankly, i cannot see how Honda's Milton-Keyes operation is not going to end up pairing with Milton-Keyes based RedBull. It is bound to happen. inevitable, honestly.

Mclaren is unhappy and needs a good engine and thinks Honda can't.
Honda is unhappy and needs more than 1 team to supply, despite knowing their engine is the main problem.
RedBull is unhappy with Renault and needs a works engine. Renault is not going to give them what they want and need, Mercedes and Ferrari flip them the finger. They're in the same city for crying out loud.
Didn't recently some sponsors/[oil] supplier go from Mclaren to RedBull even?

RedBull could use a fresh engine supplier. Honda could do with a fresh start with a new team.
RedBull - Honda also is an ideal partnership in exposure and branding too.

Honda also brings a really big bag of money too. RedBull has a lot of money, but let's be honest, it's not like those extra hundreds of millions of dollars a year won't come in handy. so much opportunities to put that money to good use.

I would really like to see Mclaren excell again, fight for the win, the WCC and WDC, and it would be great if it was with Honda but honestly, that dream is over. as much as i hold hope, it's damaged hard. And they could still go with Mercedes, just not for the WCC.

Toro Rosso would be the ideal platform for Honda to get some pressure relief and come out better, then to supply RedBull in 2019 with a beastmode engine and start dominating again whilst building up for the renewed engine formula as of 2021, which might be postponed to 2022, whilst other manufacturers enter F1 like Porsche and BMW and Cosworth.

Mclaren - BMW
RedBull - Honda
Force 1 - Porsche
Williams - Aston Martin
Mercedes AMG - Mercedes
Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari
Renault - Renault
Haas - Cosworth
Toro Rosso - Honda
Sauber - Mercedes

sounds fabulous imho.
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:35 am
Sainz accident in Canada was the same as Alonso with Kimi in Suzuka start in... 2012? Would you say Alonso showed a clear lack of awareness and insight?
For one thing yes, if any driver did that but Alonso he'd be judged pretty harshly for doing it but because it's Alonso people forgave it. In terms of comparing that one to Grojsean, had Alonso's car not stopped high up the corner he'd have come down mid pack and caused a truly horrible crash, he got extremely lucky he didn't because I think he would have been judged far more harshly. One of the reasons Grosjean was judged so harshly was the outcome as is always the way in F1. Straight up Alonso threw away the 2012 title with that move yet for 5 years since then like 98% of people I see talking about Alonso/Ferrari say they never provided him with a title capable car and he did everything he could. He had a 44 point lead that year, Spa obviously wasn't his fault, but neither were Vettel's two failures. Without that costly and stupid mistake in Suzuka Ferrari almost certainly wins the title and Ferrari absolutely gave him a car capable of achieving that.

However even there, it was the actual start and Alonso didn't actually see him. In canada Sainz literally stated he saw him and iirc he hit him twice, a little wheel bang before the full crash. His statements basically read that, he knew he was there, knew they touched, then he thought he just wasn't there any more so moved to the inside. First off, where the sweet jesus did Sainz think Grosjean had gone, alongside him a second ago, on a straight, but now he's just gone. Then even more importantly with that "excuse" is, who takes the inside line on that straight anyway? It's bad for the corner, if he believes Grosjean isn't there any more then he's not directly defending because no one who isn't already alongside will dive bomb the inside with that turn because you'll never make it.

That all leads me to believe that he both knew Grosjean was there and he figured he could squeeze him to get him to back off, then he's lied about what happened after, both of which make it significantly worse than Alonso's Suzuka accident, where Alonso COULD have seen Kimi but didn't. Sainz literally states he saw him, then his excuse isn't remotely plausible, he basically intentionally squeezed Grosjean exactly as Grosjean did to Hamilton, causing a similar kind of incident but at a slightly less dangerous corner. That hairpin and going right meant squeezing Ham on the inside was crazy dangerous. Had he like Alonso(did accidentally in his case) done it on the outside they might not have hit anyone else at all. If Sainz did that into the hairpin instead the crash would likely have been worse and taken out another 1-2 cars.

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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:57 pm
TR with Honda sounds interesting. Imagine if the 2018 engine is a beast and they beat RedBull and fight for the top 5.

Quite frankly, i cannot see how Honda's Milton-Keyes operation is not going to end up pairing with Milton-Keyes based RedBull. It is bound to happen. inevitable, honestly.

Mclaren is unhappy and needs a good engine and thinks Honda can't.
Honda is unhappy and needs more than 1 team to supply, despite knowing their engine is the main problem.
RedBull is unhappy with Renault and needs a works engine. Renault is not going to give them what they want and need, Mercedes and Ferrari flip them the finger. They're in the same city for crying out loud.
Didn't recently some sponsors/[oil] supplier go from Mclaren to RedBull even?

RedBull could use a fresh engine supplier. Honda could do with a fresh start with a new team.
RedBull - Honda also is an ideal partnership in exposure and branding too.

Honda also brings a really big bag of money too. RedBull has a lot of money, but let's be honest, it's not like those extra hundreds of millions of dollars a year won't come in handy. so much opportunities to put that money to good use.

I would really like to see Mclaren excell again, fight for the win, the WCC and WDC, and it would be great if it was with Honda but honestly, that dream is over. as much as i hold hope, it's damaged hard. And they could still go with Mercedes, just not for the WCC.

Toro Rosso would be the ideal platform for Honda to get some pressure relief and come out better, then to supply RedBull in 2019 with a beastmode engine and start dominating again whilst building up for the renewed engine formula as of 2021, which might be postponed to 2022, whilst other manufacturers enter F1 like Porsche and BMW and Cosworth.

Mclaren - BMW
RedBull - Honda
Force 1 - Porsche
Williams - Aston Martin
Mercedes AMG - Mercedes
Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari
Renault - Renault
Haas - Cosworth
Toro Rosso - Honda
Sauber - Mercedes

sounds fabulous imho.
I can see RedBull testing the waters with Honda & Toro Rosso for sure. Maybe to see how 2018 goes and pending the success, a possible tie up in 2019? haha we can dream.
Based on current sponsorship and especially based on the roadcar project Red Bull and Aston are undertaking together, I'd say, if anything, Red Bull have spoken to Aston to be a potential works supplier with the new regs if they jump on board. No doubt the technical partnership with Merc and the connection with Red Bull is what is driving their presence at the current meetings.

Speaking based on pure speculation and just a bit of fun for 2021, I could see this being a crazy shake up haha.

Mclaren - Honda (things will come good and this is historic)
RedBull - Aston Martin
Force 1 - Mercedes
Williams - Renault
Mercedes AMG - Mercedes
Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari
Renault - Renault
Haas - Acura (rebadged Honda more in line with the American market)
Toro Rosso - Aston Martin
Sauber - Ferrari (maybe Alfa rebadge if Marchionne is still obsessed)

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Rumours about a TR-Honda deal are becoming stronger after Sauber has ended their (pre)deal with Honda. Its a risky move for Honda but as mentioned it thing go ok Red Bull could be the next one .

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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So batsh*t rumors in the paddock is Ron is buying ToroRosso.

AMuS:
Is buying Ron Dennis Toro Rosso?

You can see that the GP circus is exhausted. The closer the summer pause came, the wilder the rumors became. The last one sounds as if it were a Russian Fake news agency. Ron Dennis buys Toro Rosso. When we meet Red Bull Motorsport boss Helmut Marko, laughs about his weight: "Well, the Ron has now got 300 million for his McLaren shares. He then can call us.
Then the doctor (MArko) quotes a second speculation in the environment of the Red Bull team: the RB B-team Toro Rosso would move to England. "Such a nonsense," Marko defames the story in the same breath. "And why did we set up a super factory in Faenza?
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 55587.html


maybe together with Honda... Ron heading the WorksTeam. bye bye McLaren :mrgreen:
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.