Silly Season 2017/2018

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... ml?block=1

Carlos Sainz Jr. to Renault. And they're not even waiting. They'll replace Palmer with him in Malaysia !

Gasly to Toro Rosso in Malaysia !
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hemichromis
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Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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GPR-A wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 11:36
djos wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 01:14
PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 00:41
That comprison does't really apply because Max switches in-season and was basically a boy in the sport. Daniel was obviously going to stay on top of him forst time around. Daniel had no business beating a 4XWDC in his own team... But he did... Qualli after Qualli, Race after race. It was certainly legitimate speed.
Indeed, and Dan is winning the team points battle this year mainly due to superb driving and not crashing into others. Both have had mechanical DNF's this year but Dan continually shows his ability to pull off great passes without hitting his opponents, unlike max. Plus he punishes others for making mistakes.
I wish it would have been so simple to concur.

Max had 6 DNF (all related to PU) and Ric had only 3.
Importantly, on every occasion when Ric gained a podium, Max started ahead of him and could have finished on podium, if not for the DNFs.
In Monaco, Max was ahead of Ric until the strategy played a role.
In Canada, he could have easily retained 2nd place ahead of Bottas, the way Bottas struggled to pass Ocon.
In Baku, it would have been Max who would have won, instead of Ric.
In Silverstone, Max was called in for a precautionary pit stop, that prevented him from a podium.

In fact, on almost all occasions where Ric got on to podium, it would have been Max.

So, just to look at Monza and saying, Ric is better than Max was belying all the realities. So much of frustration and still managing to put in those qualifying performances makes him a stand out performer. Otherwise, just look at Vettel last year.

One fact that has stood out this season is that, Max is faster than Ric over a lap and the engine failures have masked what would have happened in races. If the PU would have shown good reliability, Ric would have been desperately searching for a new home already.
Seems a very biased way of looking at things!

marvin78
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Joined: 21 Feb 2016, 09:33

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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It is. There are so much would's that you cant't even count them. VER "could" also have screwed up all those races and the past shows that that is not even so unlikely. He has to show, that he is a good racing driver over a whole season. People give him very much credit. He might earn that some day but until now, based on facts, he does not.

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djos
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Max is insanely fast and I love watching him race, especially in the wet!

However Dan has beaten max in races like Monaco by driving insanely well and making the absolute most of every situation. He's beaten drivers in much better cars on a regular basis - he's just a great racer. Max is still learning.

Imo Dan is a modern Prost and Max a modern Senna. They are both supremely talented but Dan is the better strategic driver.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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djos wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 13:12
Max is insanely fast and I love watching him race, especially in the wet!

However Dan has beaten max in races like Monaco by driving insanely well and making the absolute most of every situation. He's beaten drivers in much better cars on a regular basis - he's just a great racer. Max is still learning.

Imo Dan is a modern Prost and Max a modern Senna. They are both supremely talented but Dan is the better strategic driver.
What's those 9 years difference in age between them worth? If it is about racing skills, it was already on display last year (in a car that he hadn't tested) at Silverstone and Brazil, where Ric couldn't match Max.

hemichromis
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Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Cherry picking!

These are two great drivers with individual strengths, you do not have to say Ricciardo's skills are 'nowhere' for us to believe Verstappen is a fantastic driver also!

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Cherry picking, is exactly where I started my first post today. Taking one race at Monza and ignoring everything else that happened throughout the season, to conclude how only Ricciardo is earning points for the team.

Like it or not, whether it suits your way of looking at drivers, they would first be compared to their team mate. How else did Ricciardo got selected ahead of JEV?

A teenager going head to head with a guy with loads of grand prix experience, still coming out on top on various aspects, doesnt' augur well for his team mate.

GoranF1
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Not sure if this is a joke or what?
How reaible Racer usualy is?

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/it ... just-silly
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Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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What i think is happening is that Alonso goes to indy,
and Sainz goes to Mclaren paired with the Renault engine.

Mclaren wants to dump their Honda engines @ Toro Rosso so they're free from that burden,
and take a Renault instead. Toro Rosso then says, hey you can have the Renault engine but take Sainz from us then.
If Alonso was staying for 2018 @ Mclaren, that wouldn't have happened.
Alonso however going for Indy and LM, opens a seat @ Mclaren. Lando Norris is too young and unexperiened to fill that seat alongside
semi-rookie VanDoorne so they need another quick and experienced driver.
Welcome Sainz, who also knows the Renault engines.

Gasly takes Sainz' seat @ Renault.

Sainz goes to Renault @ Malaysia during the rest of the season and at the end of the season is replaced with Kubica.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

zeph
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Manoah2u wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 01:06

and Sainz goes to Mclaren paired with the Renault engine.
That seems odd, given he has just been signed to Renault. I doubt Renault would want to get rid of him now.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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where did you see proof he signed with renault?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Schuttelberg
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Verstappen has generally shown more speed than Ricciardo this year. I personally find a lot of Ricciardo's performances this year masked by Verstappen's terrible reliabilities. At the end of they day, they're by and far the best driver pairing on the grid in F1. Verstappen made one terrible mistake this year, but Ricciardo himself did that at Baku but ended up winning because everyone else around him kept falling over.

As far as race craft is concerned, the two championship contenders have bullied past practically everyone in their way but neither could pass Verstappen when they were racing him this year. I don't want to get into the debate of who's better or who's been better this year because it's all a hypothesis. We will never know because of MV reliability. But those saying DR has more race craft have clearly no idea about MV's karting days or his racing pedigree.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Starscreamer
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Schuttelberg wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 11:26
Verstappen has generally shown more speed than Ricciardo this year. I personally find a lot of Ricciardo's performances this year masked by Verstappen's terrible reliabilities. At the end of they day, they're by and far the best driver pairing on the grid in F1. Verstappen made one terrible mistake this year, but Ricciardo himself did that at Baku but ended up winning because everyone else around him kept falling over.

As far as race craft is concerned, the two championship contenders have bullied past practically everyone in their way but neither could pass Verstappen when they were racing him this year. I don't want to get into the debate of who's better or who's been better this year because it's all a hypothesis. We will never know because of MV reliability. But those saying DR has more race craft have clearly no idea about MV's karting days or his racing pedigree.
So true \:D/
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marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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in the remote chance that max falls away from greatness people will only remember that he was out scored by Danny. the race he won for example only actually happened due to rosberg Ham crashing.

when it comes to the race craft i actually think they are equal. max will take more risky moves sure but only complete some of them. Danny makes some of the best at the moment without risking his car

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

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Jolle wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 16:38
Vasconia wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 16:22
Jolle wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 15:59

Verstappen would be the guy to (in a few years time) take over from Hamilton or Vettel, not as their long term team mate. Then you’ll get Prost/Senna kind of blow ups
Indeed, I was just pointing out that Ricciardo is much better if you want to have two fast drivers without suffering a clash between them.
Vettel, Hamilton (and Alonso, Verstappen) are going to clash with whoever challenges them in the same car. It's one of the trades why they are where they are and not Bottas, Kimi or Button. If you want a team with either of them in it, you better make sure you've got a follower instead of a challenger next to them (like in the past Barichello, Berger, Heiki, Herbert, etc etc). Ricciardo will make Vettel uncomfortable. You don't pay 40mln a year to make it uncomfortable.
Apart from some minor tense moments I think Ricciardo handled very well his time with Sebastian and he is doing the same with Max.

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