Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Squid
3
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 00:55

Re: Honda Power Unit

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3jawchuck wrote:
10 Oct 2017, 23:44
MrPotatoHead wrote:
10 Oct 2017, 23:16
If Honda have matched Renault then that Red Bull must be one incredible chassis with that turd if an engine...
I think the last races have completely blown that idea out of the water and I'm surprised people keep claiming it and bringing it up.
Who is claiming that Honda matched Renault? Hasegawa only said that they are close, he very specifically said that they're not better than them. It's also pretty indisputable that Red Bull right now has a vastly superior chassis.

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MrPotatoHead
53
Joined: 20 Apr 2017, 19:03
Location: All over.

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Nickt9999 wrote:
10 Oct 2017, 23:28
MrPotatoHead wrote:
10 Oct 2017, 23:16
That Red Bull must be one incredible chassis with that turd if an engine...
Ha ha. I can't stop laughing.
I was laughing when I wrote it if it wasn’t obvious

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PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Shh don't let the McLaren fans hear!
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Dimi wrote:
07 Oct 2017, 11:14
PlatinumZealot wrote:
06 Oct 2017, 23:33
Why is the fuel piping going into the valve cover (on the left side)?

I see the cam driven pump on the right.(or maybe it's just something else bolted to the valve cover?) but.. look.. no fuel lines to be seen otherwise? hmm..

Those spark plugs might be combination injectors.. TJI... with an internal passage built into the valve cover that goes into the injectors from there?

Or maybe i am just crazy, and the injector are side entry hidden from view..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLXW2BfUEAEAY3Y.jpg
In this photo you can see two cables running into each coil. Maybe one for the plug and the other for the injector.
Any idea what is the armored cable at the right side of each coil?
Might be cylinder pressure sensors.

Image

Image

techman
-5
Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

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If Honda have matched Renault then that Red Bull must be one incredible chassis with that turd if an engine...
mate redbull is the best most efficient chassis . mclaren fans will be suprised next year how slow they are compared to redbull with the same engine. mclaren chassis performance is mainly due to high drag configuration and not efficient. next year is a wake up call.

Webber2011
10
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 01:01
Location: Australia NSW

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Hey there techman,
I'm not in any way trying to criticise you here, this question is more out of personal interest than anything else.

Are you actually some sort of "techman", or is that simply a username you liked ?

This forum used to be, and actually still is made up of some very technically minded people.

However in recent past there seems to be an influx of members that would be better suited to the Shitfight's one would normally see over at the Autosport Forum.

I know that language can be a barrier because there plenty of members here for whom english is not their first language, so it's possible I'm not fully understanding you at times.

But honestly, you seem to be here for the sole purpose of bashing McLaren, and I'm wondering if you have any technical knowledge to back up your claims ?

(Just for the record my opinion is that they will be no where compared to Red Bull next season)

Cheers,
Simon

hemichromis
14
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:00

Re: Honda Power Unit

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If Mclaren's chassis is so bad why on earth would they move to Renault?

Mclaren's chassis should be in the top 4 at the moment. How close they are to Red bull, we don't know!
Honda's engine is currently behind Renault. How far behind, we don't know.

I personally believe Honda will make big strides this year and into next.

techman
-5
Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

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if hasegawa is saying the current spec is close to renault and will overtake them with spec 4. then its logical to think mclaren over a second gap difference to redbull is NOT due to the honda engine alone. and its only redbull who is giving this chassis performance, neither TR or renault works team is giving this chassis performance. It unfortuante that mclaren is compared with redbull,? why not renault or TR both running the same engine. redbull is the benchmark in aero efficiency. iam personally happy the mclaren left honda to renault. so next season for those who said mclaren chassis is the best and its the honda engine is the reason for poor performance. well 2018 will be an eye opener. Eric boullier is quoted of saying mclaren are hoping to get third in the constructor title 2018 and also wins. well lets see.

Dimi
4
Joined: 23 Jan 2017, 18:19

Re: Honda Power Unit

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roon wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 04:12
Dimi wrote:
07 Oct 2017, 11:14
PlatinumZealot wrote:
06 Oct 2017, 23:33
Why is the fuel piping going into the valve cover (on the left side)?

I see the cam driven pump on the right.(or maybe it's just something else bolted to the valve cover?) but.. look.. no fuel lines to be seen otherwise? hmm..

Those spark plugs might be combination injectors.. TJI... with an internal passage built into the valve cover that goes into the injectors from there?

Or maybe i am just crazy, and the injector are side entry hidden from view..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLXW2BfUEAEAY3Y.jpg
In this photo you can see two cables running into each coil. Maybe one for the plug and the other for the injector.
Any idea what is the armored cable at the right side of each coil?
Might be cylinder pressure sensors.

https://www.kistler.com/fileadmin/user_ ... 05_web.png

https://www.industrialtechnology.co.uk/ ... istler.jpg
That was my first though too.
But i think its strange to be a part of the main wiring on a test engine and even more to do compustion analysis during a race.
Except these ecu 's have the ability to read and use some data like peak pressure value

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factory_p
19
Joined: 28 Jul 2016, 10:04

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Dimi wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 13:33
But i think its strange to be a part of the main wiring on a test engine and even more to do compustion analysis during a race.
Teams have all been running onboard cylinder pressure analysis since 2014. The ECU counts knock events and manages ignition timing (and probably other parameters but timing is surely N°1) on each cylinder individually throughout the race to stay as close as possible to knock without knock.
In quali mode, teams allow themselves to take 4-5 knock events per lap and per cylinder for those running Aluminium pistons, and more like 15-20 (my guesstimate) for those running steel pistons. Ideally, they will endure these knock events at the beginning of the longest straights (when extra torque brings you the most lap time) and turn down the timing to save the engine further down the straight.
Generally, the ECU learns throughout the free practice how to deploy-harvest electric power as we know, but also where the engine is more prone to knock and where the engine will accept a little more timing without knock.

They also count knock events throughout the lifetime of the engine to judge how close it is to a rapid unscheduled disassembly.

Dimi
4
Joined: 23 Jan 2017, 18:19

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Nice. Do you know if they use specialized devices(kistler, avl) or ecu for the analysis

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Autosport Hasegawa statements: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13233 ... ault-power

"From the beginning of the season, we have been improving the power unit - not only in terms of performance but also reliability. Since we introduced spec 3.5 engine, I think that level of performance is very close to the Renault. I cannot say it's better than Renault but the important thing is the reliability is much better. We're not close enough, but the gap is very small compared to last year and the first year. There is no doubt in this current concept, we're choosing a very similar concept to Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. There is no reason we can't achieve the same level of performance with the current concept."
Honda!

j.yank
24
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 13:45

Re: Honda Power Unit

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dren wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 15:03
Autosport Hasegawa statements: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13233 ... ault-power

"From the beginning of the season, we have been improving the power unit - not only in terms of performance but also reliability. Since we introduced spec 3.5 engine, I think that level of performance is very close to the Renault. I cannot say it's better than Renault but the important thing is the reliability is much better. We're not close enough, but the gap is very small compared to last year and the first year. There is no doubt in this current concept, we're choosing a very similar concept to Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. There is no reason we can't achieve the same level of performance with the current concept."
If this is true, the McLaren chassis is a disaster slightly better than Renault's chassis. Probably their performance in slow corners sectors is due to the balance of the car, not to better aero-efficiency. This could explain why they were so far behind RedBul at Suzusuka, and why RedBul has such better performance even with Renault engine. Otherwise Hasegawa statement would be very strange.

Singabule
17
Joined: 17 Mar 2017, 07:47

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Hasegawa is not Arai san, i dont believe every statement from Arai san. On the contrary, statement from Hasegawa always honest IMO. However maybe for qualy or full power, since when Honda turn up the setting their pace is similar to renault factory team. For race setting, honda tend to turn down the setting as their engine is really fragile, maybe because of lightweight aluminium piston and bearing problem in MGUH. If you want evidence, look at vandoorne in malaysia 7 first lap stint. Ferrari cannot pass him even with DRS. If reliability is sorted, i believe their race pace would similar to renault.
Last edited by Singabule on 11 Oct 2017, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

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j.yank wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 15:25
dren wrote:
11 Oct 2017, 15:03
Autosport Hasegawa statements: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13233 ... ault-power

"From the beginning of the season, we have been improving the power unit - not only in terms of performance but also reliability. Since we introduced spec 3.5 engine, I think that level of performance is very close to the Renault. I cannot say it's better than Renault but the important thing is the reliability is much better. We're not close enough, but the gap is very small compared to last year and the first year. There is no doubt in this current concept, we're choosing a very similar concept to Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes. There is no reason we can't achieve the same level of performance with the current concept."
If this is true, the McLaren chassis is a disaster slightly better than Renault's chassis. Probably their performance in slow corners sectors is due to the balance of the car, not to better aero-efficiency. This could explain why they were so far behind RedBul at Suzusuka, and why RedBul has such better performance even with Renault engine. Otherwise Hasegawa statement would be very strange.
Correct me if I am wrong but I think mechanical grip does bigger part of job at slow corners

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