Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Power density is slow to improve, we are almost at the theoretical limit of graphite anodes. Still we haven't even achieved 350 w hrs /kg for commercial cells. It won't be until commercial batteries pass the 400w hr/kg mark that they can truly compete with gasoline powered passenger cars.
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gruntguru
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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https://newatlas.com/asphalt-lithium-me ... ies/51587/
I know it is "in the lab" but technology is pushing up beyond the 400 W.h/kg mark. (Lithium batteries in the link were tested at 943 W.hr/kg)
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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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From a recent Mercedes promo video:
Close-ups of this year’s engine:
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"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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gruntguru wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:55 am
https://newatlas.com/asphalt-lithium-me ... ies/51587/
I know it is "in the lab" but technology is pushing up beyond the 400 W.h/kg mark. (Lithium batteries in the link were tested at 943 W.hr/kg)
That's actually pretty cool, I especially like the no dendrites part. The simplified manufacturing over other exotic batteries is also a plus. That energy density is unreal though, still some way off gasoline, f1 cars can produce ~750kw/hr / 105kg or ~7,140w hrs/kg.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

hurril
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Going by the cam covers - they seem to be running the cam axles very close together. Closer than it would seem than the others do.

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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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PhillipM wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:35 am
Yep, the right has the main damage, where the tyre went, it's completely removed the outer edge of the diffuser/turning vanes that hook into the tyre wake.
I'm really surprised that no one during or after the race put in some effort into taking a video camera all the way around the right rear tire, see if there was any other damage in detail. It seemed like a bit of an obvious thing. There were like eleventy billion guys with various types of camera taking pictures of video and not one decided to go and take some detailed pictures.

Even during the race we've had situations where sky or others take fairly good pictures all around where damage is suspected and show it while the race is still going. I was absolutely expecting to see more than one picture on Ted's phone from a bad angle well into the after show.

roon
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:52 pm
The Honda airbox is very similar to this one.
Correct, Honda switched to this layout some while after their initial VIM iterations. That Merc have been running this design since the beginning of 2014 is yet another testament to how right they got this formula, right from the start. Who knows, they might have had it right several years before 2014, while quietly making suggestions about what the new engine formula should be...

It seems to be an equal-length runner system, just like their exhaust headers, but made of CF and crammed above the vee, hidden behind a thin wall of CF. The housing might just be for visual obscurantism if it's not for aero or thermal. What hasn't been apparent to me yet is whether or not there is still VIM capability. Where the intake pipes come together (the two tri-lobular boxes at the front of the manifold assembly) has a short straight section. If any linear movement is accommodated in the runners, it would be in there. But it seems odd to have long pipes with only a short moveable section on the end. Otherwise, maybe VIM was simply found to be less beneficial than an equal-length runner system, relative to weight and packaging volume.

Wilder speculation would say that the black doghouse above the engine is needed because the intake spaghetti underneath it is flexible. VIM manifested as warpable or diametrically expandable hoses.

Regardless, the dual 3-1 collector format is apparent in all the images of the PU I've ever seen, over the years.

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Here's a rough sketch of what I'm talking about:

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Edit: Added images.
Last edited by roon on Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:32 am, edited 5 times in total.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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I picture the variable trumpets to be quite simple actually. The rpm range that the engines operate in is quite small so the change in lebg of the runners is small as well. Maybe in th order of 40mm? So i picture small extensions on the tips of the runners and the mechanism to control them bwing accessible through that hand hole above them.

Honda's imitation is very good. Actually it is more compact (squashed to be lower) than the Mercedes.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

roon
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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gruntguru wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:55 am
https://newatlas.com/asphalt-lithium-me ... ies/51587/
I know it is "in the lab" but technology is pushing up beyond the 400 W.h/kg mark. (Lithium batteries in the link were tested at 943 W.hr/kg)
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:34 pm
...still some way off gasoline, f1 cars can produce ~750kw/hr / 105kg or ~7,140w hrs/kg.
What are hypothetical maximum energy densities for batteries? Are there concepts that approach the densities of fuels, oils, fats, carbohydrates...

Are there any concepts, proposals, for new classes of energy storage, beyond electrochemical batteries, mechanical batteries, fuels, nuclear and matter-antimatter. Just wondering if something like a battery will ever come to be with hydrocarbon fuel-level density or higher.

hurril
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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There is a picture somewhere in this thread of a Mercedes mechanic carrying one of the input plenums. You can also see the top of the engine there.

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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roon wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:01 pm
gruntguru wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:55 am
https://newatlas.com/asphalt-lithium-me ... ies/51587/
I know it is "in the lab" but technology is pushing up beyond the 400 W.h/kg mark. (Lithium batteries in the link were tested at 943 W.hr/kg)
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:34 pm
...still some way off gasoline, f1 cars can produce ~750kw/hr / 105kg or ~7,140w hrs/kg.
What are hypothetical maximum energy densities for batteries? Are there concepts that approach the densities of fuels, oils, fats, carbohydrates...

Are there any concepts, proposals, for new classes of energy storage, beyond electrochemical batteries, mechanical batteries, fuels, nuclear and matter-antimatter. Just wondering if something like a battery will ever come to be with hydrocarbon fuel-level density or higher.
Current commercial batteries in the Tesla just hit 300 watt hours per kg. I think F1 has 300whr/kg, the Tesla battery pack is comparable to 10 gallons of gasoline in a normal mid size sedan with a naturally aspirated v6 engine making 250hp.

So for normal cars I'd say we are not far off, but for racing you still need to burn hydrocarbons. At 430 watt hours per kg batteries would be competitive with gas engines in normal cars.

Using graphite anodes the theoretical limit is ~380 whrs/kg, so 900 would be a huge deal, still not enough to go seriously racing but fine for transportation.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Thunder
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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I'm sure there is a Teletubbies Forum somewhere. This Thread, however, is about the Merc PU. Keep it on Topic please.
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Restomaniac
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Thunder wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:09 am
I'm sure there is a Teletubbies Forum somewhere. This Thread, however, is about the Merc PU. Keep it on Topic please.
I was only trying to lighten the mood after the recent weeks of us all ripping each other apart. Geez.

Also how can saying the Merc PU looks like something else be anything other than talking about the Merc PU?

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Thunder
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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You do realise that this Thread is about the technical Aspects of the Mercedes PU? Saying the PU looks like a Vacuum Cleaner adds nothing to the discussion. Nothing against a little fun, but 5 Posts about a Teletubbie Vacuum Cleaner in this Thread are just not justifiable regarding the Discussion that was going on.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

hurril
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit

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Here are the picture(s) that I remembered seeing of the intake plenums:

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http://www.f1i.com/magazine/magazine-te ... a-vjm09/3/