Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ncassi22
35
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by ncassi22 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:00 pm

hurril wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:50 am
An interesting picture! How would the richer mixture enter the area with the spark plug?
Apologies, I should have annotated the thing. There's a small port that's exposed when the outer pintle pushes forward. It'a in the sketch ,but easy to miss. I see no reason why, instead of having the chamber integrated with the injector, you can't branch it off into a hydraulic passage with a one way valve... so as soon as the injector opens a remote pre-chamber gets fed. There's another one I have that uses one driver that reverses direction to essentially do the same thing. (I have no idea if that's possible)

Snorked
69
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Snorked » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am

Amazon's full resolution sample is online =D>

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Snorked on Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

gruntguru
430
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by gruntguru » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 am

Snorked wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am
Some higher quality images from the magazine:

https://abload.de/img/20171228_050347ibqzu.png
The first image shows a port injector plus a pre-chamber injector. The rules specify a single direct injector only.

Is it possible we have been misinterpreting that rule? Could it mean "only one direct injector plus port injectors as required"?
je suis charlie

etusch
76
User avatar
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:28 am

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 am
Snorked wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am
Some higher quality images from the magazine:

https://abload.de/img/20171228_050347ibqzu.png
The first image shows a port injector plus a pre-chamber injector. The rules specify a single direct injector only.

Is it possible we have been misinterpreting that rule? Could it mean "only one direct injector plus port injectors as required"?
That solves our all questions

ncassi22
35
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by ncassi22 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:51 am

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 am
Snorked wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am
Some higher quality images from the magazine:

https://abload.de/img/20171228_050347ibqzu.png
The first image shows a port injector plus a pre-chamber injector. The rules specify a single direct injector only.

Is it possible we have been misinterpreting that rule? Could it mean "only one direct injector plus port injectors as required"?
Having a Japanese reader would be nice, but i think it might just be illustrating the difference between an active an passive jet-producing pre-chamber. My hunch is Honda is doing a wall guided pre-chamber for 2018, with a piston nipple with grooves ala orange juicer :D .

Brake Horse Power
3
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Brake Horse Power » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:07 am

Is it MGU-H deployment shown in the graphs? The 2016-2017 difference is massive during the Spanish gp..

HPD
323
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by HPD » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:59 am

Image

Mudflap
144
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Mudflap » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:06 pm

My mate who used to design natural gas engines informs me that's a PPPC - permanent passive prechamber that they've been using for about 10 years in large SI engines (the image at the bottom).

Can't wait to get back from holiday and have a proper good look at these pics - great stuff.

What stood out was the fact that they gave up on log manifolds even though the weight and space penalty must have been considerable. It also seems to indicate that the tuned manifold outweighs the benefits of reduced heat losses and better blowdown recovery of a log type manifold. Or maybe the reason was purely durability related as very short runners are notorious for high thermal stresses ?

I always wondered how they supported the turbo and MGUH without causing it to deform as the block expanded - it appears they are using some sort of droplink with Heim joints.
How much TQ does it make though?

hasika
48
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:12 am

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by hasika » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:14 pm

The article is really intersting to read,all about technology,from the HRD engineer.
I really hope someone could post the translation here,i am so busy recently and has no time to do this.

MrPotatoHead
55
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: All over.

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by MrPotatoHead » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:20 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 am
Snorked wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am
Some higher quality images from the magazine:

https://abload.de/img/20171228_050347ibqzu.png
The first image shows a port injector plus a pre-chamber injector. The rules specify a single direct injector only.

Is it possible we have been misinterpreting that rule? Could it mean "only one direct injector plus port injectors as required"?
I'm pretty sure they are showing the 2 vs 1 injector TJI method.
It talks about how the previously presented documents use 2 injectors but the rules for F1 are for 1 injector and one spark plug.
The second image is the "1 injector" method. i.e. the F1 legal method.

godlameroso
307
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:53 pm

Drag racers have been doing this since 60s. Toyota has had dual injection the last 4 years, GM just joined the party with the ZR1.

That's funny I suggested Honda was doing something like this earlier in the year. Image

Although the drawing is so crude I can understand if no one got the point.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

MrPotatoHead
55
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: All over.

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by MrPotatoHead » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:56 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:53 pm
Drag racers have been doing this since 60s. Toyota has had dual injection the last 4 years, GM just joined the party with the ZR1.

That's funny I suggested Honda was doing something like this earlier in the year. http://i.imgur.com/Mz1JMqS.jpg

Although the drawing is so crude I can understand if no one got the point.
I got what you were saying if it makes you feel any better ;-)

godlameroso
307
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:58 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 am
Snorked wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:19 am
Some higher quality images from the magazine:

https://abload.de/img/20171228_050347ibqzu.png
The first image shows a port injector plus a pre-chamber injector. The rules specify a single direct injector only.

Is it possible we have been misinterpreting that rule? Could it mean "only one direct injector plus port injectors as required"?
Rules say no injectors upstream or downstream of the intake or exhaust ports. So they just have really clever system.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

MrPotatoHead
55
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: All over.

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by MrPotatoHead » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:01 pm

There are no port injectors. Direct Injection only.
Otherwise TJI would be "easy"

dren
272
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by dren » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:28 pm

It looks like they were getting extra harvesting by routing the MGUK recovery through the MGUH after they met the 2MJ limit. This was suggested by some on here a 'few' pages back. It also means that they must be driving the MGUK by the ICE more often than we thought. The calculated brake regen at 100% was never close to 2MJ.

It looks like the MGUK is motoring the entire time the car is accelerating, though. The MGUH generation looks like it is lot better than in 2016.
Last edited by dren on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Honda!