Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Zynerji]

The small teams could get together and fund an alternative between them.

Mercedes spent hundreds of millions of pounds developing their PU. Williams spent nothing. Force India spent nothing. Why should Mercedes spend all of that money just to give it away to other teams for a few millions each?

Because they are rentals, and are never actually owned by the leasing tream. The only time a Williams employee operates the technology, is when the starter man hits the button, and the driver presses the throttle.

The only reason any of this is done is to secure an advantage. So, it is literally impossible for a Merc customer car to compete with a Merc factory car.

That makes the sport a farce similar to WWE wrestling in the US.

[Facts Only]

I love the way people (incorrectly) imagine what is going on with the engine supply and then get furious over it.

You are literally getting angry at your own thoughts.

[MrPotatoHead]

I love the way people (incorrectly) imagine what is going on with the engine supply and then get furious over it.

You are literally getting angry at your own thoughts.

This.
It's why I both love and hate this forum

[dren]

I love the way people (incorrectly) imagine what is going on with the engine supply and then get furious over it.

You are literally getting angry at your own thoughts.

This.
It's why I both love and hate this forum

After speculation gets repeated numerous times, it becomes fact.

[MrPotatoHead]

I love the way people (incorrectly) imagine what is going on with the engine supply and then get furious over it.

You are literally getting angry at your own thoughts.

This.
It's why I both love and hate this forum

After speculation gets repeated numerous times, it becomes fact.

Is that a fact? Or merely speculation?

[dans79]

After speculation gets repeated numerous times, it becomes fact.

to many believe what they wan't to believe.....

[dans79]

The only reason any of this is done is to secure an advantage. So, it is literally impossible for a Merc customer car to compete with a Merc factory car.

How do you explain RBR (3rd) wiping the mat with Renault (6th) ?

RBR - 3 wins, 13 podiums, 13 retirements, 368 points
Reanult - 0 wins, 0 podiums, 11 retirements, 57 points

Hint, it's not because the engine manufactures are doing anything to hinder their clients, it's about who can best optimize the total package!

[Just_a_fan]

Because they are rentals, and are never actually owned by the leasing tream. The only time a Williams employee operates the technology, is when the starter man hits the button, and the driver presses the throttle.

The only reason any of this is done is to secure an advantage. So, it is literally impossible for a Merc customer car to compete with a Merc factory car.

That makes the sport a farce similar to WWE wrestling in the US.

If Williams wants to put its hand in its pocket (or even someone elses), spend 3-4 times its annual budget developing a race winning PU they can. If they then want to give that away to other teams for £5m a pop then they can do that also.

The real reason Williams won't beat Mercedes is because Williams spends about a third of what Mercedes spends per year. Mercedes have better facilities, more of the right people in those facilities, arguably the best driver on the grid, and are able to develop a race winning car even whilst competing for the previous year's titles. That's why Williams won't beat Mercedes. The same applies to Force India. Likewise Haas / Ferrari. Renault has the same engine as RedBull - so why does RedBull make them look silly every race? Because RedBull spends at least twice as much as Renault, that's why.

[Facts Only]

I love the way people (incorrectly) imagine what is going on with the engine supply and then get furious over it.

You are literally getting angry at your own thoughts.

This.
It's why I both love and hate this forum

After speculation gets repeated numerous times, it becomes fact.

Its why i rarely bother with the forum anymore. Its the same old debatea over and over but the imagined slights and conspiracy theories get repeated so much more often that they become accepted wisdom and real facts just get lost to the annuls of time.

[lio007]

Because they are rentals, and are never actually owned by the leasing tream. The only time a Williams employee operates the technology, is when the starter man hits the button, and the driver presses the throttle.

The only reason any of this is done is to secure an advantage. So, it is literally impossible for a Merc customer car to compete with a Merc factory car.

That makes the sport a farce similar to WWE wrestling in the US.

If Williams wants to put its hand in its pocket (or even someone elses), spend 3-4 times its annual budget developing a race winning PU they can. If they then want to give that away to other teams for £5m a pop then they can do that also.

The real reason Williams won't beat Mercedes is because Williams spends about a third of what Mercedes spends per year. Mercedes have better facilities, more of the right people in those facilities, arguably the best driver on the grid, and are able to develop a race winning car even whilst competing for the previous year's titles. That's why Williams won't beat Mercedes. The same applies to Force India. Likewise Haas / Ferrari. Renault has the same engine as RedBull - so why does RedBull make them look silly every race? Because RedBull spends at least twice as much as Renault, that's why.

So, you basically say that the customers get the same PU in every single detail as the works team?

AFAIK the FIA monitors torque distribution. In that respect, per regulations, there should be no differences between customer and works team.

What if the works team can use special settings to use e.g. more efficient combustion without sacrifying performance, therefore they need x kg less fuel in the race. (=> I'm no engine expert, so I don't know if this es even possible)
But in qualy they should have equal fuel levels, so in theory the customers shouldn't have a time penalty caused by more fuel in the tank. Driver aside, could it be that this big difference is only caused by the chassis?

For me it's so hard to believe, that there is no difference between customer and worksteam PU.

[MrPotatoHead]

Come on guys. The rules dictate that the hardware has to be the same between all teams.
The only difference is that Mercedes for Example might run more aggressive calibration because they can afford to do so.

[roon]

Ancillary hardware is different and of significance. Intercoolers, radiators, fluids. Sump gas enhanced combustion would also differentiate, if this was developed to a significant degree, but at expense and dependent upon fluids supplier so likely only a works option.

[dans79]

For me it's so hard to believe, that there is no difference between customer and worksteam PU.

Then you are only seeing what you want to see!

look at the qualifying results from Baku:

Ham 1:40.593
Mas 1:42.798

That's a 2.2% difference in lap time between the fastest Merc and the slowest one. That 2.2% difference is because The engine is specifically designed and optimized for the factory team, Williams just bolts it into the back and runs it. Add to that that Merc's budget is over 2.5 times that of Williams, and it plain to see Why the factory team is a head.



if that's not enough to shoot a hole in your belief, then I will pose to you the same question i did to Zynerji.

How do you explain RBR (3rd) wiping the mat with Renault (6th) ?

RBR - 3 wins, 13 podiums, 13 retirements, 368 points
Reanult - 0 wins, 0 podiums, 11 retirements, 57 points

Hint, it's not because the engine manufactures are doing anything to hinder their clients, it's about who can best optimize the total package!

[MrPotatoHead]

Ancillary hardware is different and of significance. Intercoolers, radiators, fluids. Sump gas enhanced combustion would also differentiate, if this was developed to a significant degree, but at expense and dependent upon fluids supplier so likely only a works option.

That is not a part of the Power Unit. That's the point.
Most of the Power Unit is the same as dictated by the rules, unless there is a limited supply of new parts, and all customers are to have the new parts available to them at the next PU change if desired.
So much conspiracy theory here I feel like I'm on facebook at times...

[roon]

Didn't say it was. "Ancillary." This is where being both engine and chassis supplier perhaps has its advantages; superior integration and ability to develop outside of what the rules constitute as the PU. Intake, IC, pipes, software, strategy, fluids.

That the FIA outlawed what they call "oil injection" in the 2018 rule-set suggests that something might have been going on. Was the FIA acting solely upon rumors? Why illegalize a non-existent or non-advantageous technique? Why call it "oil injection?"

Questions =/= theory. Nor even a hypothesis in this context.