2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[the EDGE]

Honda fans (such as myself) have no excuse to make fun of Mclaren right now since TR is struggling at the bottom, similarly Mclaren is 1.2sec behind Redbull with the same engine, so they don't have any right to mock Honda either.

Problem is both of those teams set lofty standards that were unreasonable, TR is not gonna fight for points at regular basis and Mclaren won't be fighting fro podiums on a regular basis. Disappointment all around.

When have McLaren fans ever mocked Honda or Toro Rosso? Now Mocking the Mockers... that’s a different story

[johnny comelately]

Any talk as to what problems they had?

[FrukostScones]

Honda fans (such as myself) have no excuse to make fun of Mclaren right now since TR is struggling at the bottom, similarly Mclaren is 1.2sec behind Redbull with the same engine, so they don't have any right to mock Honda either.

Problem is both of those teams set lofty standards that were unreasonable, TR is not gonna fight for points at regular basis and Mclaren won't be fighting fro podiums on a regular basis. Disappointment all around.

Personally, I feel even at this moment, this is a Q2 car. The drivers have to learn quickly, but with their inexperience, it's understandable. Hartley was very close to Q2. The boys will have to learn quickly, this is now a works team with huge potential.

PU OK now, car mediocre to bad, GP2 drivers. That s it. 14-20.

[carisi2k]

Q1 was pot luck with the evolution of the track and Gasly locked a brake and he has been consistently faster then Hartley so no need to be harsh. What is impressive is those first 6 cars, especially the silver car with the number 44 on it.

In Sainz's hand the car would probably be much higher up the grid for sure.

[Bisonas]

Reading the intermediate speed traps and max speeds from qualifying the PU does seems ok now TBH. Decent at least, near Renault levels. At least from the MAX Speed perspective. We don't know about driveability and other factors.
And remains to be seen if the last year Honda trend continue. They used to have a decent qually mode and doing decent qualifications but in the race where everything kicked in, consumption etc, they where lacking even more.
We have to see tomorrow if that aspect of their last year engine is fixed at least. And AUS is in did fuel hungry circuit.

We also don't know if TR did or will do tomorrow, what everyone accused Mclaren for not doing last year. And this is sacrificing downforce and cornering speed for gains on MAX speed. That would make Honda seem more decent, and TR chassis look more bad. Mclaren never did that last year, i don't know if TR will do it this year.

[Ground Effect]

Q1 was pot luck with the evolution of the track and Gasly locked a brake and he has been consistently faster then Hartley so no need to be harsh. What is impressive is those first 6 cars, especially the silver car with the number 44 on it.

In Sainz's hand the car would probably be much higher up the grid for sure.

In hindsight, maybe it would have been more prudent to keep Daniil Kvyat, or drafted in Sebastian Buemi or JEV?? I know it's a. bit of medicine after death and the lads will improve, but do they have the capabilities to help develop the car?

[carisi2k]

That isn't the toro rosso way but is it.

[restless]

We also don't know if TR did or will do tomorrow, what everyone accused Mclaren for not doing last year. And this is sacrificing downforce and cornering speed for gains on MAX speed. That would make Honda seem more decent, and TR chassis look more bad. Mclaren never did that last year, i don't know if TR will do it this year.

Why should they sacrifice lap time for max speed?
Every team should try to have best lap time, there are no points for max speed

It seems the chassis lacks grip, or they are unable to setup properly
RB and Renault times are 1.5sec faster than last year
TR is the only team who went 0.1sec slower
So, its quite simple.
Honda engine slower than current renault engine + worse chassis + worse pilots.
Thats reality atm

[techman]

anyone has the speed traps in quali?

[Bisonas]

anyone has the speed traps in quali?

[jz11]

We also don't know if TR did or will do tomorrow, what everyone accused Mclaren for not doing last year. And this is sacrificing downforce and cornering speed for gains on MAX speed. That would make Honda seem more decent, and TR chassis look more bad. Mclaren never did that last year, i don't know if TR will do it this year.

Why should they sacrifice lap time for max speed?
Every team should try to have best lap time, there are no points for max speed

It seems the chassis lacks grip, or they are unable to setup properly
RB and Renault times are 1.5sec faster than last year
TR is the only team who went 0.1sec slower
So, its quite simple.
Honda engine slower than current renault engine + worse chassis + worse pilots.
Thats reality atm

you sacrifice some lap time for top speed in order to have better chance in overtaking, or defending, so they may have known that if they setup for the ultimate lap time, that would leave them vulnerable on straights, and they would lose that 12-15th quali place and end up in 15-20 lets say, but this way they end up 15-20 in quali, and may have a fighting chance to climb higher in the race

[techman]

thanks @Bisonas

[sn809]

Honda fans (such as myself) have no excuse to make fun of Mclaren right now since TR is struggling at the bottom, similarly Mclaren is 1.2sec behind Redbull with the same engine, so they don't have any right to mock Honda either.

Problem is both of those teams set lofty standards that were unreasonable, TR is not gonna fight for points at regular basis and Mclaren won't be fighting fro podiums on a regular basis. Disappointment all around.

Only one team did the media circus and that is Mclaren/Alonso who have made tall claims.

If you ask anyone else who is an F1 fan but not using this forum they have not heard a peep out of Honda. Toro Rosso did media presentations but always said that Honda will meet Renault engine mid season.

Naturally fans have higher expectation of Honda. As has been mentioned so many times both drivers are new and went around Albert park the first time and even that one a drying track which is part street circuit-Means its not an easy circuit and is complicated by the fact it was drying. If you compare with Sirotkin and Lclerc they are there and there abouts with those guys having a known more powerful unit.

As far as the car is concerned well hopfully they will be able to develop it more but what they really need is a whole new rear end.

The season is starting guys not ending.
Lets see the pros-Honda is still supplying engines and importantly not to Sauber
For the first time the engine has not died on track.
Speed traps show consistently high speeds.

[etusch]

"Toro Rosso driver Brendon Hartley was quickest of the five drivers eliminated in the first segment of qualifying, missing out on a place in Q2 by just 0.029s to Ocon."

At single lap Gasly looks better. I would like to see him finishing his flying lap in the right way

[MMMMMMMM]

..... Toro Rosso did media presentations but always said that Honda will meet Renault engine mid season.

That's what Honda has been saying for the last three years, that they will catch Renault by mid-season and leapfrog them by the end of the season. Hard facts tell us Toro Rosso is the only team that went backwards compared to last year.

Comparing 2018 qualy results with 2017, TR is +0.1s, while everyone else improved to a smaller or greater extent.
Sauber is -1.9s compared to 2017.
McLaren is -1.8s compared to 2017.

The way I see it, is that Honda has improved, but the others haven't sat still and the time sheets reflect that.
Toro Rosso on the other hand have a lot of home work to do. As much as I like Hartley and Gasly and believe in their potential, right now they are not the pair TR needed for the development work that's ahead.
I'm not sure if staffing and resourcing is adequate either, for TR to become a podium contender in the next few years.