Akrapovic in F1

[pompelmo]

we know that Slovenian akrapovič has the best exsousts in this small planet and is used in all 125, 250 and motoGP bikes!
Now Akrapovič is making exousts for BAR-honda team!
Do you think bar will get a advantage by using Akrapovič???
Or the exoust pipe isn't that big deal in F1!

[sharkie17]

i thought exhaust system was a VERY big deal in engine performance...

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well it is a big deal....but teams have already mastered the "art" of building them a few years ago. One thing is building exaust pipes for a motorcycle....2 or 4 cylinders...another is building them for 10 cylinders....the acoustics, gas-flow, vibrations, etc, have alot more variables in a 10 cylinder then in a 4 cylinder. In any case if BAR contracted him it must have given them a slight advantage, if not performance wise....it could just be economicly wise!

[dumrick]

teams have already mastered the "art" of building them a few years ago

In fact, from what I recently read, the actual making of the exhaust pipes is still left to very skilled specialised little workshops like this one (from the drawings of the engine maker, of course).

It needs very skillful bending of little thickness pipes, that is mastered only by this artisans. The article I read was about a french guy that supplied some F1 teams. The hell is that is one of those things that is only noticed when it fails...

[Monstrobolaxa]

teams have already mastered the "art" of building them a few years ago

In fact, from what I recently read, the actual making of the exhaust pipes is still left to very skilled specialised little workshops like this one (from the drawings of the engine maker, of course).

It needs very skillful bending of little thickness pipes, that is mastered only by this artisans. The article I read was about a french guy that supplied some F1 teams. The hell is that is one of those things that is only noticed when it fails...

....but teams already employ people to do this! And design their own exaust pipes. (I didn't mention it cause I thought it was understandable from my post). The pipes are made from Inconal and are welded with a kind of laser welding.

In the old days when the brake ducts were made from metal the fabricator that made the pipes also made the ducts.

Williams has had the same guy making their pipes since 1984 (just a curiosity). Another curiosity H.H. Frentzen last year at the begining of the year made a complete exaust pipe (just for fun) at Hinwell....and he did test it...but it cracked after a few laps...seems to me that he was already looking for a new job...but pipe making isn't his thing.

If anyone has the Discovery Channel there are a few Formula 1 documentaries, in almost all of them they interview the guys that make the pipes at Williams and Renault.

[marcush.]

the material is INCONEL ,I´ll specify the correct number if someone is interested.
The welding is done by TIG welding.TungstenINERT GAS welding ,the Gas is normally ARgon or Helium (Heliarc).
Inconel is very limited in supply especially in thin gauges as used by F1 teams.whereas usually Exhaust pipes are 1.5 to 2mm thickness ,highperformance systems use 1.2mm wall thickness stainless steel in308 or the tougher321 grade.
F1 Headers are very thinwall ranging down to 0.8mm ,so you need the extreme tough INCONEL stainless,wich is more difficult to weld.
Due to the limited availability of inconel tubing the tubes are welded out of flat sheet and then bent .wich is a very interesting process.
The bends are cut and welded up to form these snakes of equal length stepped tubes wich are internally as perfect as outside.
Even the best Fabricators need over 50 hours to build a 5in1 header to
F1 spec.This does not include any tooling or thinking how you go at the project ,just the pure cutting ,forming and welding!
These guys are just magic!If HHF was able to weldup something that could be tested on a car,my greatest respect for his handcrafts!

[walter]

This is all very interesting, I have never heard of this material called Inconel. Is it a type of steel? What are its proporties? is it better at heat transfering?
another question that I have... Do teams still coat their headers with ceramics? I know that was done in the 90's but I cannot say that the modern headers look coated. Its a small thing that I never really payed attention to before.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Yup HH.Frentzen was able....it was something he had tried in 1999 at Jordan....but at that time....he didn't do anything usefull at all....seems he trained for 4 years! but in any case it might have just been a publicity stunt.

Humm...marcush could you give the ref number? I found 68 diferent "Inconels".....

[sharkie17]

hmm.. i dont see why you would need to coat with ceramics seeing that retaining exhaust temperature is not a problem in short headers like in F1 application.

(only reason to coat headers with ceramics is to retain exhaust temperature to maximize exhaust velocity... or am i wrong?)

[ReubenG]

Inconel is a range of Nickel based alloys - very ductile. I know that Inconel 600 is used in the steam generator tubes of nuclear power stations so I would imagine that it retains a fair amount of its strength at high temperatures - a fairly desirable characteristic for exhaust pipe material.

[Guest]

from http://www.burnsstainless.com:

625 Inconel, containing approximately 60% Nickel and 22% Chromium, was developed to cope with the extreme heat and strength demands of jet engines.
Molybdenum and Nobium elements also contribute to 625’s strength at temperatures greater than 1800º F, where 321 SS is unsuitable.
Inconel 625 excels in applications such as Rotary engines and extreme duty turbocharger exhausts.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArtic ... ticle.html

[hdblue]

from http://www.burnsstainless.com:

625 Inconel, containing approximately 60% Nickel and 22% Chromium, was developed to cope with the extreme heat and strength demands of jet engines.
Molybdenum and Nobium elements also contribute to 625’s strength at temperatures greater than 1800º F, where 321 SS is unsuitable.
Inconel 625 excels in applications such as Rotary engines and extreme duty turbocharger exhausts.

Hi,

Iagreed with you. Any way, your points of view make me thinking about some thing for my project.

Pls try to keep posting. Tks and best regards

[Caito]

HDBlue, try to watch the date of older posts. This guest (and the other users) posts date from 2004.