2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[PhillipM]

But let nobody be under any illusion about how toxic RB management can get if they're not getting what they want.

I agree with everything you say there, Mclaren were even prepared to supply Sauber with a gearbox and rear end suspension setup to keep Honda in F1 with Sauber at the time, everyone complaining about Mclaren being toxic has a very, very short memory. Especially those hoping this leads to Red Bull - Honda cars - if the honda motors don't perform in a Red Bull or keep breaking down the amount of shitstorming RB pull will make their time for the past few years look like a walk in the park.

Honda are fine where they are, a small, mid-field team where the odd DNF or a few grid penalties for trying new engines out doesn't matter too much.

[HPD]

[Big Tea]

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... k=snkxBOGM

So, more DF or bigger/less worn skid blocks?

[Edax]

Toro Rosso is only gaining personality. Everyone says they like Toro Rosso but it's almost no one's favourite because it's only seen as a development team/young drivers school living in the shadow of RB. Everyone thinks of them as a "nice" team, so to say.

At least now they are being talked about and are expressing their feelings while getting TV and media coverage in general! Plus it's in their interest to defend their "business" partner..

I am not a TR fan, but I think TR is one of the if not the most undervalued team on the grid. Sure they had the best pick in drivers via RB, and they had help developing their car. But if you look at it they have been able to perform near miracles on a limited budget and recources. Like in 2016 when they were driving with a year old engine.

They didn’t complain about their engine but made their chassis to work with it best they could, even revising their wheelbase and aero philosophy to fit the engine. I guess they are doing the same with Honda now.

And in that respect they are fully entitled to take a jab ad McLaren with their “we have the best chassis”. You cannot make a chassis and force the engine in compliance.

[etusch]

[Alonso Fan]

Toro Rosso is only gaining personality. Everyone says they like Toro Rosso but it's almost no one's favourite because it's only seen as a development team/young drivers school living in the shadow of RB. Everyone thinks of them as a "nice" team, so to say.

At least now they are being talked about and are expressing their feelings while getting TV and media coverage in general! Plus it's in their interest to defend their "business" partner..

I am not a TR fan, but I think TR is one of the if not the most undervalued team on the grid. Sure they had the best pick in drivers via RB, and they had help developing their car. But if you look at it they have been able to perform near miracles on a limited budget and recources. Like in 2016 when they were driving with a year old engine.

They didn’t complain about their engine but made their chassis to work with it best they could, even revising their wheelbase and aero philosophy to fit the engine. I guess they are doing the same with Honda now.

And in that respect they are fully entitled to take a jab ad McLaren with their “we have the best chassis”. You cannot make a chassis and force the engine in compliance.

No one forced the engine into compliance. This conspiracy has been debunked several times. Honda agreed to size zero and thought that they could make a good, fast engine that small. Clearly they were wrong

A works partnership is exactly that, a partnership. This act of pressuring the other party to try to comply with your goals (how successful this act is, is irrelevant) happens all the time. Mercedes have said themselves that their aero department had to pressure the engine department to try to slim down and rearrange the components to cater for their new slim rear end this year. It really isn't something new.

[GhostF1]

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... k=snkxBOGM

So, more DF or bigger/less worn skid blocks?

Not representative of DF, hard to say without knowing rake, ride height levels as well and watching the race, any car that went pit side of the track on the straight, sparks were plenty. Something about surface that changes on that side.

[sn809]

But let nobody be under any illusion about how toxic RB management can get if they're not getting what they want.

I agree with everything you say there, Mclaren were even prepared to supply Sauber with a gearbox and rear end suspension setup to keep Honda in F1 with Sauber at the time, everyone complaining about Mclaren being toxic has a very, very short memory. Especially those hoping this leads to Red Bull - Honda cars - if the honda motors don't perform in a Red Bull or keep breaking down the amount of shitstorming RB pull will make their time for the past few years look like a walk in the park.

Honda are fine where they are, a small, mid-field team where the odd DNF or a few grid penalties for trying new engines out doesn't matter too much.

I could not disagree more than what @ground effect and You say.
Have you guys read what Frédéric Vasseur had to say about his day before the Honda meeting. They asked Mclaren about the Gearbox situation and were told to the effect that Mclaren wont be making one for Honda as they are focussed on Renault now.

A major reason for Sauber moving to Ferrari was the lack of a gearbox to use with Honda.

I don't know if you remember but the pictures of Honda Management at the time of dissolution of contract was not sad/angry but in fact happy smiling people. That is all anyone needs to know about it. Honda were happy to get out.

[PhillipM]

They were already linked into the Honda contract to supply that years gearbox and rear end to Sauber, it was Frederic who cancelled it because he didn't want to be stuck on that gearbox for the next few years (Sauber can't develop their own and Mclaren weren't going to upgrade it from where it was).
That's not Mclarens fault, they offered the box and rear end and had already signed a provisional contract for it, Mclaren were helping to keep Honda on the grid as much as they could.

As I said, Honda are fine at Toro Rosso for a few years, the last thing they need is to be in another front running team like RB, with the associated pressure to perform, and who are terrible for seriously bad PR if they get anything wrong.
I, for one, am going to be happy if with less stress they get their act together and together with TR the car climbs up the grid, just as I'm going to be happy if the mclaren does the same, the two aren't mutually exclusive, no matter what half the trolls on this thread think.

[McMika98]

I am not a TR fan, but I think TR is one of the if not the most undervalued team on the grid. Sure they had the best pick in drivers via RB, and they had help developing their car. But if you look at it they have been able to perform near miracles on a limited budget and recources. Like in 2016 when they were driving with a year old engine.

They didn’t complain about their engine but made their chassis to work with it best they could, even revising their wheelbase and aero philosophy to fit the engine. I guess they are doing the same with Honda now.

And in that respect they are fully entitled to take a jab ad McLaren with their “we have the best chassis”. You cannot make a chassis and force the engine in compliance.

Agreed. For a team with one of the lowest budget, they are very resilent and efficient. Every year they start very competitive before other teams outdevelop them by throwing extra money.
James key is the man when it comes to competitive cars with no fancy aero just solid driveable chassis. They were shafted by Mclaren because the plan was to do a Haas-Ferrari this year with RBR. Regardless they got on and had to allocate more resources to build their own gearbox housing at the last minute.

2019 is going to be even better. Call me a dreamer but i can see them getting podiums this year.

[Squid]

Toro Rosso is only gaining personality. Everyone says they like Toro Rosso but it's almost no one's favourite because it's only seen as a development team/young drivers school living in the shadow of RB. Everyone thinks of them as a "nice" team, so to say.

At least now they are being talked about and are expressing their feelings while getting TV and media coverage in general! Plus it's in their interest to defend their "business" partner..

I am not a TR fan, but I think TR is one of the if not the most undervalued team on the grid. Sure they had the best pick in drivers via RB, and they had help developing their car. But if you look at it they have been able to perform near miracles on a limited budget and recources. Like in 2016 when they were driving with a year old engine.

They didn’t complain about their engine but made their chassis to work with it best they could, even revising their wheelbase and aero philosophy to fit the engine. I guess they are doing the same with Honda now.

And in that respect they are fully entitled to take a jab ad McLaren with their “we have the best chassis”. You cannot make a chassis and force the engine in compliance.

No one forced the engine into compliance. This conspiracy has been debunked several times. Honda agreed to size zero and thought that they could make a good, fast engine that small. Clearly they were wrong

A works partnership is exactly that, a partnership. This act of pressuring the other party to try to comply with your goals (how successful this act is, is irrelevant) happens all the time. Mercedes have said themselves that their aero department had to pressure the engine department to try to slim down and rearrange the components to cater for their new slim rear end this year. It really isn't something new.

It's correct to say that McLaren didn't force size zero on them. However, it's important to note that when Honda rejoined F1, they took a lot of guidance from McLaren since the formula was entirely new to them. Honda didn't have the experience to say "making an engine this small will be very problematic". McLaren had too much hope on their chassis and decided to take the gamble anyway. A gamble that Ferrari lost in 2014, I might add. The signs were there, and McLaren should have known. Honda couldn't have known, so they relied on McLaren.

Now we see the parallel with Toro Rosso. Honda has been requesting changes, like adding 3cm to the rear of the engine, and Toro Rosso has been very accomodating. I'm wary of calling it too soon, but I hope that Bahrain's results are an example of how this mutual trust along with a few years of experience is paying off.

[techman]

ferrari and mercedes doing well in qual is because of their advance ers system. honda need to work more on them. i think ice is pretty good with a extra 30 bhp. but iam hoping more ers system is used for qualy

[ivanlesk]

But let nobody be under any illusion about how toxic RB management can get if they're not getting what they want.

I agree with everything you say there, Mclaren were even prepared to supply Sauber with a gearbox and rear end suspension setup to keep Honda in F1 with Sauber at the time, everyone complaining about Mclaren being toxic has a very, very short memory. Especially those hoping this leads to Red Bull - Honda cars - if the honda motors don't perform in a Red Bull or keep breaking down the amount of shitstorming RB pull will make their time for the past few years look like a walk in the park.

Honda are fine where they are, a small, mid-field team where the odd DNF or a few grid penalties for trying new engines out doesn't matter too much.

I could not disagree more than what @ground effect and You say.
Have you guys read what Frédéric Vasseur had to say about his day before the Honda meeting. They asked Mclaren about the Gearbox situation and were told to the effect that Mclaren wont be making one for Honda as they are focussed on Renault now.

A major reason for Sauber moving to Ferrari was the lack of a gearbox to use with Honda.

I don't know if you remember but the pictures of Honda Management at the time of dissolution of contract was not sad/angry but in fact happy smiling people. That is all anyone needs to know about it. Honda were happy to get out.

You don't know why they were happy, you can only assume.

[Singabule]

ferrari and mercedes doing well in qual is because of their advance ers system. honda need to work more on them. i think ice is pretty good with a extra 30 bhp. but iam hoping more ers system is used for qualy

No, i think they are still lacking in balancing the PU output and exhaust energy. MGUH Depend on how much remaining energy left from exhaust. They are also lacking in development management compare to others because they only have one team to analyze that. For qualy mode, it is easier to understand because battery is fully charged. Honda qualy mode is about deploy all the energy inside the battery. I understand that this mode is not so aggressive because they not open the wastegate different than race mode. It is simplify the deployment strategy and PU mapping. In the future, i expect they play the PU mapping as aggresive as merc, but with current PU reliability they cant afford that.

[johnny comelately]

Was Brartley lifting early sometimes?