2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[sn809]

I don't think Honda turn around has anything to do with Tost or TR tbh.
I truly believe that it was just about time to get it right.
Over the last three years they took a lot of wrong directions, they took a lot of wrong decisions , they had a hell lot of failures they did a hell lot of investigations, they did get outside help regarding different directions, they summed up all those experiences, they used all their knowledge from the last 3 years, and they produced a decent engine regarding performance.
IMO no matter with what team they would be, this year it would always gonna be the year that Honda would get it right. It was just too personal for them.
Now all that talking about less pressure better communication etc etc, i don't really buy it.
It was about time for Honda to deliver.
Now they have to prove their reliability and their ability to develop the engine even more.

You have your thoughts and I respect them, but I disagree completely.
It has to do with what TR have done that Mclaren were unwilling to do. Develop something together and make adjustments to the chassis.
Just imagine if you are developing a car and the Gear box you made cannot mate to the engine. Its not 1960.
Whilst I do agree Honda have done a lot of research and dev I think if it would be Mclaren it would be the same result as before multiple failures

[loner]

indeed ,GOOD RIDDANCE.

[makecry]

I don't think Honda turn around has anything to do with Tost or TR tbh.
I truly believe that it was just about time to get it right.
Over the last three years they took a lot of wrong directions, they took a lot of wrong decisions , they had a hell lot of failures they did a hell lot of investigations, they did get outside help regarding different directions, they summed up all those experiences, they used all their knowledge from the last 3 years, and they produced a decent engine regarding performance.
IMO no matter with what team they would be, this year it would always gonna be the year that Honda would get it right. It was just too personal for them.
Now all that talking about less pressure better communication etc etc, i don't really buy it.
It was about time for Honda to deliver.
Now they have to prove their reliability and their ability to develop the engine even more.

You have your thoughts and I respect them, but I disagree completely.
It has to do with what TR have done that Mclaren were unwilling to do. Develop something together and make adjustments to the chassis.
Just imagine if you are developing a car and the Gear box you made cannot mate to the engine. Its not 1960.
Whilst I do agree Honda have done a lot of research and dev I think if it would be Mclaren it would be the same result as before multiple failures

It's a bit too early for the entirety of Honda's work with Toro Rosso to show fruits. Some of them are showing but Honda with McLaren this year would have been more or less similar.

[Bisonas]

I don't think Honda turn around has anything to do with Tost or TR tbh.
I truly believe that it was just about time to get it right.
Over the last three years they took a lot of wrong directions, they took a lot of wrong decisions , they had a hell lot of failures they did a hell lot of investigations, they did get outside help regarding different directions, they summed up all those experiences, they used all their knowledge from the last 3 years, and they produced a decent engine regarding performance.
IMO no matter with what team they would be, this year it would always gonna be the year that Honda would get it right. It was just too personal for them.
Now all that talking about less pressure better communication etc etc, i don't really buy it.
It was about time for Honda to deliver.
Now they have to prove their reliability and their ability to develop the engine even more.

You have your thoughts and I respect them, but I disagree completely.
It has to do with what TR have done that Mclaren were unwilling to do. Develop something together and make adjustments to the chassis.
Just imagine if you are developing a car and the Gear box you made cannot mate to the engine. Its not 1960.
Whilst I do agree Honda have done a lot of research and dev I think if it would be Mclaren it would be the same result as before multiple failures

If you really think Mclaren is to blame for Honda misfortunes, your are being naive.
Honda was responsible for the engine, Mclaren was responsible for the integration.
So the real Question was , Blame the engine? or the blame the integration ?
You really think Honda engine was a gem the last 3 years?? and Mclarens integration cause all the troubles ?? Well, Think deeper.
I am a Honda fan and i respect their heritage , i was very sad to see them split with Mclaren cause i am Mclaren fan also.
Firts of all Honda is not some new kid on the block. Even if Mclaren suggested something regarding the integration , Honda should be in a position to say NO, if they thought that was no possible. If Honda where saying YES to everything, because they thought it would be ok, it was not Mclarens fault.
When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.
When you don't get right the oil tank shape and size ffs , its not Mclarens fault.
As much as i love Honda, they had to endure a very painful learning curve in this new hybrid era.
You can blame Mclaren as much as you like, but deep down , heads where rolling on Honda each year, restructure after restructure on the highest level, until the Honda f1 engine department gets it right.
They didn't care about Mclarens pressure, because their heritage, their history and their culture was giving them 1000 times more pressure than Mclaren could ever give them. They are proud people, and the pressure they can give to themselves is far grater of the pressure Mclaren could ever put them through.
It was about time Honda get it right with their engine and i am saying again IMO TR had nothing to do with it.
I know i am on TR-Honda forum, but i am here mostly about Honda. Sorry if am not giving TR enough credit, but i am speaking mainly about Honda.
I love Honda, and i love japan culture, but they can be really stubborn some times.
It was a personal bet for them this year and they had to deliver. They ought to their history, their heritage and their fans. I really hope the engine proves reliable and that they will be able to develop it even farther.
I hope they surprise us all.
Sorry for my long post.

Edit: I do agree that Mclaren last year tried to make them look worst than what they where, by choosing setups that didn't favor top speed. At some tracks that was true. But Mclaren did that for politics.They wanted to put pressure on FIA to find a solution because the decision to change engine partners was obviously taken early on from Mclaren. Much earlier than we thought.

[Zynerji]

It's been proven in articles that Honda asked to increase the size of the ICE by 4cm, and Peter Promadou @ McLaren would not let them.

Honda messed up by committing to build their part smaller than they could make reliable, and McLaren messed up by not allowing more size freedom to make reliability changes.

Now, STR benefits from that, as they were happy to allow Honda all the space it needed to make these upgrades. And the Honda unit is now ultra compact due to the McLaren birthing, but has grown up a bit in power and reliability.

Good job by STR, IMHO.

[Talisman]

When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.

Just curious, how do you simulate G forces on the test bench? Do you mount the dyno on a centrifuge and spin it every which way?

[Bisonas]

When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.

Just curious, how do you simulate G forces on the test bench? Do you mount the dyno on a centrifuge and spin it every which way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc
Something like that i would imagine.
AFAIK they can simulate g-forces up to one degree.
Not the full g-forces of an f1 car obviously but not a static dyno testing either.

[Big Tea]

When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.

Just curious, how do you simulate G forces on the test bench? Do you mount the dyno on a centrifuge and spin it every which way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc
Something like that i would imagine.
AFAIK they can simulate g-forces up to one degree.
Not the full g-forces of an f1 car obviously but not a static dyno testing either.

It is often done with kit like this, but I don't think it would be feasible to run an engine on one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0aDkiycDiw

[loner]

I don't think Honda turn around has anything to do with Tost or TR tbh.
I truly believe that it was just about time to get it right.
Over the last three years they took a lot of wrong directions, they took a lot of wrong decisions , they had a hell lot of failures they did a hell lot of investigations, they did get outside help regarding different directions, they summed up all those experiences, they used all their knowledge from the last 3 years, and they produced a decent engine regarding performance.
IMO no matter with what team they would be, this year it would always gonna be the year that Honda would get it right. It was just too personal for them.
Now all that talking about less pressure better communication etc etc, i don't really buy it.
It was about time for Honda to deliver.
Now they have to prove their reliability and their ability to develop the engine even more.

You have your thoughts and I respect them, but I disagree completely.
It has to do with what TR have done that Mclaren were unwilling to do. Develop something together and make adjustments to the chassis.
Just imagine if you are developing a car and the Gear box you made cannot mate to the engine. Its not 1960.
Whilst I do agree Honda have done a lot of research and dev I think if it would be Mclaren it would be the same result as before multiple failures

It's a bit too early for the entirety of Honda's work with Toro Rosso to show fruits. Some of them are showing but Honda with McLaren this year would have been more or less similar.

both teams have a new PU however Mclaren qualified a full second behind STR in Bahrain .. why can't we assume
PP is clueless EB is clueless , lets wait some more few races perhaps this possibility is feasible ..its not healthy to be a yes man its ok to have doubts and to question people in positions.
3 years with Honda the car wasn't so good and with Renault the car still lacks, this should ring bells instead of blind defending.

[techman]

my only concern is whether TR can keep up the development through out the season. hartly needs to perform also. 4th is possible but will need a big push and a bit of luck. i heard mclaren brining a b spec hopefully tr also brings something big

[Talisman]

When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.

Just curious, how do you simulate G forces on the test bench? Do you mount the dyno on a centrifuge and spin it every which way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc
Something like that i would imagine.
AFAIK they can simulate g-forces up to one degree.
Not the full g-forces of an f1 car obviously but not a static dyno testing either.

That wouldn’t have shown up the problems with oil circulation Honda had.

[Alonso Fan]

You have your thoughts and I respect them, but I disagree completely.
It has to do with what TR have done that Mclaren were unwilling to do. Develop something together and make adjustments to the chassis.
Just imagine if you are developing a car and the Gear box you made cannot mate to the engine. Its not 1960.
Whilst I do agree Honda have done a lot of research and dev I think if it would be Mclaren it would be the same result as before multiple failures

It's a bit too early for the entirety of Honda's work with Toro Rosso to show fruits. Some of them are showing but Honda with McLaren this year would have been more or less similar.

both teams have a new PU however Mclaren qualified a full second behind STR in Bahrain .. why can't we assume
PP is clueless EB is clueless , lets wait some more few races perhaps this possibility is feasible ..its not healthy to be a yes man its ok to have doubts and to question people in positions.
3 years with Honda the car wasn't so good and with Renault the car still lacks, this should ring bells instead of blind defending.

Woah hang on, you're basing your assessment on 1 race result (not even that, you're basing it on qualifying times). How do you like it if I do the same?

Here goes 'Toro Rosso was nowhere in Australia, one engine failure and the other finishing last. Honda has lost the ball, 4 years and they still can't make it reliable. Toro Rosso management needs to get their act together, car aero is compromised, rookie drivers etc etc etc while mclaren was there to pick up the pieces through good strategy when the big 3 teams faltered '

There. Now that sounds ridiculous and delusional doesn't it? Just like your post above.

Not defending mclaren management, they certainly can work on their PR. But your post is utter tripe

[sn809]

When Honda was Dyno testing for 2 years without simulating G-forces on their test bench , and suddenly when G-forces where applied on the car they where discovering all kind of problems it was not Mclarens fault.

Just curious, how do you simulate G forces on the test bench? Do you mount the dyno on a centrifuge and spin it every which way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc
Something like that i would imagine.
AFAIK they can simulate g-forces up to one degree.
Not the full g-forces of an f1 car obviously but not a static dyno testing either.

This argument is going no where, enjoy the live practice guys.

[Thunder]

Ok lets all take a deep breath and remember this thread is about Toro Rosso. There is a Honda Thread for those who want to analyze the Honda Story so far.

[Marti_EF3]

Gasly is 314kmh on the Speed Trap. Looking good on the straight so far... Only Bottas is ahead with 315kmh. The Mclaren was at 303kmh...

Lets see the FP2 with the setup more advanced... Not so good than Bahrain, but i'm satisfied