2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

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PhillipM
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by PhillipM » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:55 am

Not particularly, he'd been in clean air for a while and would have a nice cool car, good tyres, etc - no way Vettel would have breezed past him without a fight.

TAG
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:45 am

And Vettel would be looking at a 15 to 18 second gap to begin with, that's a lot of time to make up, especially knowing he'd have hard time getting past Hamilton who would have been on more than capable tires and plenty of fuel. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, we've seen them do it before.
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Sevach
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Sevach » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm

Ricciardo is all "give me this car Toto".


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... n-1025163/

GPR-A
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR-A » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm
Ricciardo is all "give me this car Toto".


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... n-1025163/
In all honesty, it would be a done deal by the middle of the season! That's my gut.

Phil
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:04 pm

Sure about that? Toto was managing Bottas and i am not sure what Ricciardo would bring over Bottas, assuming they can reach an agreement with Hamilton. This is all about building an harmonic team.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by iotar__ » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:55 pm

Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm
Ricciardo is all "give me this car Toto".


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... n-1025163/
Calling Ricciardo laughable would be an insult to laughable people :roll: . This is just quintessential F1
- failure on the track: very slow in Q in Australia + got himself stupid penalty, slow in Bahrain Q + lost position at the start to a slower car
- theoretical hero of between races press releases in other cars (not his own, nothing to say about Verstappen for example)
- Ricciardo's chest beating is one thing, pseudo journos and worst of all official F1 site amplifying this nonsense without any comment is criminal

Unlike Ricciardo, Hamilton and Mercedes pit crew and contrary to great British journalist (BBC, Bottas lacks killer instinct) Bottas actually delivered in Bahrain. He had a killer instinct in Q (unlike Hamilton), killer instinct at the start (unlike Hamilton or Ricciardo) to jump Raikk and to give himself a chance of a win, very good pace before the stop and good enough afterwards. Problem (again in Bahrain) was a bad stop but let's not talk about that.

Luckily for Ricciardo Toto Wolff promptly beat him in absurd statements department by announcing interest in Sainz who's having an outright trainwreck season, two bad, slow and incompetent races. It fits the formula: failure on the track, hero of press releases.

dren
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dren » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Phil wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:04 pm
Sure about that? Toto was managing Bottas and i am not sure what Ricciardo would bring over Bottas, assuming they can reach an agreement with Hamilton. This is all about building an harmonic team.
Harmony between drivers is one thing, but getting the points and wins when you should is another. The pressure is building on Bottas to perform and he knows it. Hamilton, Rosberg, and Ricciardo all would have at least attempted a reasonable pass on Vettel in Bahrain. I think it's fair to say that all three would have likely pulled it off, too. Bottas played it safe and brought home some good points. It's easy to say "what if" though.
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by adrianjordan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:50 pm

iotar__ wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:55 pm
Sevach wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm
Ricciardo is all "give me this car Toto".


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... n-1025163/
Calling Ricciardo laughable would be an insult to laughable people :roll: . This is just quintessential F1
- failure on the track: very slow in Q in Australia + got himself stupid penalty, slow in Bahrain Q + lost position at the start to a slower car
- theoretical hero of between races press releases in other cars (not his own, nothing to say about Verstappen for example)
- Ricciardo's chest beating is one thing, pseudo journos and worst of all official F1 site amplifying this nonsense without any comment is criminal

Unlike Ricciardo, Hamilton and Mercedes pit crew and contrary to great British journalist (BBC, Bottas lacks killer instinct) Bottas actually delivered in Bahrain. He had a killer instinct in Q (unlike Hamilton), killer instinct at the start (unlike Hamilton or Ricciardo) to jump Raikk and to give himself a chance of a win, very good pace before the stop and good enough afterwards. Problem (again in Bahrain) was a bad stop but let's not talk about that.

Luckily for Ricciardo Toto Wolff promptly beat him in absurd statements department by announcing interest in Sainz who's having an outright trainwreck season, two bad, slow and incompetent races. It fits the formula: failure on the track, hero of press releases.
Shame that "killer instinct" disappeared when he had chance to actually take the lead and win the race and instead he went with a move that I could defend against, let alone Vettel.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Kingshark
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Kingshark » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:48 am

iotar__ wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:55 pm
Calling Ricciardo laughable would be an insult to laughable people :roll: . This is just quintessential F1
- failure on the track: very slow in Q in Australia + got himself stupid penalty, slow in Bahrain Q + lost position at the start to a slower car
Ricciardo was fantastic in the race in Melbourne. He was one of the very few drivers who actually managed and overtake on track. His pace at the end of the race was also very impressive.

In Bahrain, he qualified 0.440s slower than Vettel and just 0.274s slower than Bottas despite having an inferior engine without party mode. He overtook Gasly straight back at turn 4 after the start.

He is without question a more competitive driver than Bottas

Fulcrum
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Fulcrum » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:40 am

Maybe this should be in the team thread.

Tommy Hilfiger sponsors the Mercedes F1 team, but not Williams. Considering Lawrence Stroll's relationship with TH, is this some kind of quid pro quo for Lance and/or Williams?

zac510
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zac510 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:34 am

Even if Toto is perfectly happy with Bottas's performance and resultant team harmony, the media and fans may still destroy his confidence further with their constant criticisms of his performance.

Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Big Mangalhit » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 am

TAG wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:45 am
And Vettel would be looking at a 15 to 18 second gap to begin with, that's a lot of time to make up, especially knowing he'd have hard time getting past Hamilton who would have been on more than capable tires and plenty of fuel. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, we've seen them do it before.
If had pit let's say the lap after kimi's he would be 2-3s maximum behind hamilton with fresh SS (~16s to Bottas), since the gap (to ham) at that point was about 20s. With that tiny gap and fresher softer tyres it would have been an easy overtake for sure, easier than the one he pulled on lap 25 when he had the same type of tyres (albeit much newer).

In fact when vettel pitted the first time he got 7s behind hamilton and in 4 laps with the new softs he was ahead. Now imagine how much easier it would be having the same difference in tyre age but also a tyre two compounds softer. I personally think that he could maybe even get Bottas but unfortunately we'll never know.

Sources: https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/08/201 ... and-tyres/

For the first pit stop gaps you can check this video: https://youtu.be/DIm2cqy7-AI?t=3m48s

Phil
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:00 pm

dren wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:23 pm
Phil wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:04 pm
Sure about that? Toto was managing Bottas and i am not sure what Ricciardo would bring over Bottas, assuming they can reach an agreement with Hamilton. This is all about building an harmonic team.
Harmony between drivers is one thing, but getting the points and wins when you should is another. The pressure is building on Bottas to perform and he knows it. Hamilton, Rosberg, and Ricciardo all would have at least attempted a reasonable pass on Vettel in Bahrain. I think it's fair to say that all three would have likely pulled it off, too. Bottas played it safe and brought home some good points. It's easy to say "what if" though.
I don't quite agree. Bottas never really was in a position to attempt a reasonable pass on Vettel. He should have been, if he had not had that one slight lock-up 2 laps before the end and would have been in DRS range a lap earlier, rather than just on that final lap. One could argue that Bottas was a little too lax, but one could also argue that Mercedes as a team failed to capitalize on the proper strategy; e.g. once they realized that Ferrari were indeed attempting to one-stop as well, they should have closed that gap to put on pressure on Vettel/Ferrari that may have cascaded to further opportunities or even force them into another stop. Ferrari would have certainly done that. Anyway, Mercedes as a team didn't capitalize on that and therefore simply blaming it on the driver is not quite fair.

Other than that, Bottas has been fairly consistent point scorer. He's made few mistakes, yet he has proven that he can indeed beat Hamilton on a good day too. On top of that, he's easy to work with, calm and sensible. Of course, Ricciardo is that too - but I am not that convinced he is showing to be that much quicker. He could be, but if he is, would that not unsettle the peaceful harmonics with Lewis? If he isn't why sign him in the first place? What does he bring that Bottas doesn't already? Added marketing value?

My guess is that Mercedes main priority is to sort things out with Hamilton first. He's their main strength. Hamilton said this agreement extension might be his most important one yet - perhaps the terms on which he will end his career in F1. Beyond 2020, not much is certain yet with Liberty just having shown their plans and visions for the future. It will be interesting to see if Mercedes is willing to commit to the sport, a sport that is set to become more equal and at a much lower cost with an induced budget ceiling many times lower than what Mercedes is currently spending. This will mean that their influence and strength as a team/manufacturer will also be decreased. This of course will also increase the importance on a strong and committed driver.

Even so, the sport is as it is and will remain so until at least 2020. By the end of this season, there's still 2019 and the 2020 season. In theory, the least we could expect Hamilton to extend his contract till end of 2020 with Mercedes, with an option for further extension beyond 2020 if Mercedes and Hamilton decide to stay. This decision will also impact their contract with whoever takes that second seat.

IMO, Ricciardo is just being used as bait at the moment. He'd be an ideal replacement for Hamilton, or at the very least to put on pressure on Hamilton's negotiations. Hamilton doesn't really have anywhere else to go, so his only argument would be that he's quite willing to leave F1 by end of 2018. If that happens, then Ricciardo would be the ideal man to step in, alongside Bottas.

If Hamilton stays, then the question comes down to how long he'll stay and who to best partner him. IMO that would still be Bottas of what I have seen so far. That would leave Ricciardo with either a seat at RedBull or indeed Ferrari where he may upset the natural order with Seb there.

Other than that, what else is there? Hamilton to Ferrari? As fun as that would be, I'd only see that as a negotiation tactic to raise his stakes at Mercedes.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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dren
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dren » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:04 pm

I don't see Hamilton going anywhere else. I agree, I think he'll sign his last contract with Mercedes depending on their commitment to the sport.
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TAG
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Re: 2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:34 pm

Big Mangalhit wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 am
TAG wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:45 am
And Vettel would be looking at a 15 to 18 second gap to begin with, that's a lot of time to make up, especially knowing he'd have hard time getting past Hamilton who would have been on more than capable tires and plenty of fuel. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, we've seen them do it before.
If had pit let's say the lap after kimi's he would be 2-3s maximum behind hamilton with fresh SS (~16s to Bottas), since the gap (to ham) at that point was about 20s. With that tiny gap and fresher softer tyres it would have been an easy overtake for sure, easier than the one he pulled on lap 25 when he had the same type of tyres (albeit much newer).

In fact when vettel pitted the first time he got 7s behind hamilton and in 4 laps with the new softs he was ahead. Now imagine how much easier it would be having the same difference in tyre age but also a tyre two compounds softer. I personally think that he could maybe even get Bottas but unfortunately we'll never know.

Sources: https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/08/201 ... and-tyres/

For the first pit stop gaps you can check this video: https://youtu.be/DIm2cqy7-AI?t=3m48s
Yeah, sure, all that. Except that Hamilton was driving to a target. Which he wouldn't be driving to were he to come under attack from Vettel. The discussion has been had in the race thread, we don't have to bring it here.
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