2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[PhillipM]

More Mclaren --- in the TR thread again, cut it out, this is about how Torro Rosso and Honda are doing, not this years Mclaren, that has no relevance other than also having a last minute car due to engine changes - it's even more laughable that you think this years Mclaren is relevant to last years when it doesn't even have the same basic upgrade parts on.

[loner]

More Mclaren --- in the TR thread again, cut it out, this is about how Torro Rosso and Honda are doing, not this years Mclaren, that has no relevance other than also having a last minute car due to engine changes - it's even more laughable that you think this years Mclaren is relevant to last years when it doesn't even have the same basic upgrade parts on.

first of all iam not the one opened the talk about Mclaren
secondly STR had a last minute car as well and guess what ? they were best of the rest in Bahrain
perhaps you should read this
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/43778011

[PhillipM]

Yes, and they were nowhere in China. And I don't see any Toro Rosso in that link.

[loner]

Yes, and they were nowhere in China. And I don't see any Toro Rosso in that link.

who gives afly ? STR are not targeting the title and they didn't let go 100m$ and works team value for qualifying 13
STR have a nothing budget.

[Talisman]

Yes, and they were nowhere in China. And I don't see any Toro Rosso in that link.

who gives afly ? STR are not targeting the title and they didn't let go 100m$ and works team value for qualifying 13
STR have a nothing budget.

Doesn’t talk about the team that let £100 million go belong in the appropriate McLaren thread?

[Talisman]

A lot more braking zones in Baku to help harvesting.

I don't think TR's problem is harvesting or fuel saving anymore. At least no more than other teams. This weekend seems to be set up and aero issue. As many have already mentioned the sweepers seem to be where they lose times and that is similar to Australia.

The driver's inexperience does show as they seem to be happy with their setup on Friday and why the decision to change over night? This car seems to have a very small window that it works well, temp and tire temp. Hopefully the upgrade will start to make the car less of a compromise on unfavorable tracks.

Is it the car or the tyres that have a small operating window?

McLaren apart the midfield teams seem to be fluctuating a lot in relative performance. Same with Ferrari and Mercedes. Seems to me a bit like 2012.

[Marti_EF3]

But I don't understand how the temps affect now at the car on the chasis-aero part. Because in the Pre-Season tests with very low temps they were performing well enough (and without the bahrain aero update), so... I don't know what to think. Maybe they don't fully understand the new rear suspension right now. Or maybe in Barcelona the new surface helped them to warm up the tires (instead of Mclaren that at 80% tests were going with softer compounds)

[Postmoe]

This is exactly the reverse of the mclaren draggy wars with Honda. One team wanted to show how underpowered the engine was and the otheris just trying the opposite, make Honda look good.

F1 and politics.

Mclaren still struggle even with Renault and 2 out of 3 in the point finishes were utter fluke ALO said after China qualy this is the maximum that Mclaren can do
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... n-1025978/

what would make me trust such incompetent team and his nothing but average aero team ?!!
STR partnering is new we should give them time

Weird reply. My comment was just about how the teams election of an aero philosophy can impact in how engine is perceived.
Why so much rant?

[Bisonas]

In order to blame setup choices and tyre temperatures for a bad showing, first the chassis must prove it self capable for a good showing on a downforce sensitive, front-limited track.
Well it just hasn't done it yet. China was the first real downforce efficiency chassis test on medium to high speed corners.
STR-HONDA package proved in Bahrain that it can excel on a rear-limited tracks that require heavy braking and heavy traction out of slow corners when actually asking very little from the chassis side regarding medium to high speed corners.

So IMO Chassis still needs some work. I am sorry but i can't just blame setup choices and tyre temps.
If you ask me, no matter how many practice sessions you could give to STR in China and no matter how many setup choices where trying , the result couldn't dramatically differ. There are just limitation on the chassis that can't be solved with setup changes It will need development.
Honda probably has its limitation also. IMO It is still suffering a bit on end-of-straight speed (on long straights) because of MGU-K deployment. It suffers a lot less that last year for sure, but on very long straights i think some MGU-K deployment limitations still persist. Especially on tracks they can not harvest energy as much as they would like.

Anyway no one said either Honda or TR became top Chassis and top PU over one winter.
It will need development for both Chassis and PU.
Signs are very promising. I don't know what TR will do with the chassis but Honda has got me really excited with the progress it made and for the developments it can't bring during the season.

Anyway Baku should be a much better showing despite its long straights.

[j.yank]

So they went for less downforce and found out that it didn't really help them make up time on the straights anyway.

Exactly opposite - on Saturday they went with more downforce, and they destroyed their performance in the third sector. Look at the sector times during all practices.

[rogazilla]

Personally I am ok for STR thread to compare STR car to any other car including McLaren which is obviously a bench mark.

[Marti_EF3]

Let's stop that please. Comparisions are fine, but that type of discusions go nowhere. I want both to perform well and have good battles at the track, none of them will be better or worse discusing about draggy chassis or stuff like that. So let's see what the races show, and what STR and Honda bring soon. Waiting for the Bakú upgrade to know if they are doing the job to the right direction

[aral]

For goodness sake. Is it not possible to keep Alonso and McLaren out of an STR Honda thread? Off topic posts have been removed. Please think before you post as posts that are off topic will be removed.

[Alonso Fan]

The top speeds from the race were definitely influenced by a tow. Almost half the field had a tow when recording their speed trap. Maybe even more than half the field.

And last, I never denied that Honda made progress they're definitely on terms with Renault or thereabouts it seems. Great work by them.

Thanks aral. About time too

Edit Thunder: Please don't get personal

[loner]

The top speeds from the race were definitely influenced by a tow. Almost half the field had a tow when recording their speed trap. Maybe even more than half the field.

And last, I never denied that Honda made progress they're definitely on terms with Renault or thereabouts it seems. Great work by them.

Thanks aral. About time too

i said (comparing with the midfield)
ok answer this if it wasn't on merit could they finish P4 after the RBR and Ferrari retires ?!!
you have no case here you do argue for arguing , i have no clue what yo want to prove!!