Science paper on pre-chamber or flame jet ignition.

[johnny comelately]

and you can leave "turbulent" out of the discussion too, it's immaterial in my opinion.
that should light something up

[johnny comelately]

re the nitro engine, because you are dealing with liquid management the vertical placement (which had to be by engine design) worked well because it retained enough air in the spark chamber to initiate properly, as they drown easily (the usual reason they explode).
it had a multiple hole config of about 2mm diam.
this is important to charge the spark chamber. And because it is a hemi config giving plenty of depth for flame to do its thing.
this brings me to the concept honda pictures that were in here somewhere, it had multiple tiny holes that would be impossible to charge through, thus in the centre it looked like an additional ingress mechanism, but all fiction, wish poster would have put CONCEPT at the start or am I blind

[MrPotatoHead]

As an indication of the effect of these, we fitted them(2 per cyl vertically) to a nitro hemi engine running normal 60BTDC timing.
at start up the blower belt went from smooth running to snaking showing that it was almost running backwards.
timing can come back to under 10 degrees, talk about pumping losses, what this saves in lost power is amazing.

This got my attention. I’m working on a cool Nitro Hemi deal right now.

[johnny comelately]

As an indication of the effect of these, we fitted them(2 per cyl vertically) to a nitro hemi engine running normal 60BTDC timing.
at start up the blower belt went from smooth running to snaking showing that it was almost running backwards.
timing can come back to under 10 degrees, talk about pumping losses, what this saves in lost power is amazing.

This got my attention. I’m working on a cool Nitro Hemi deal right now.

Absolutely make sure you pull timing back to 5 degrees, otherwise you'll have a hole in your wallet
Be ready for the effect, no kidding.

[MrPotatoHead]

As an indication of the effect of these, we fitted them(2 per cyl vertically) to a nitro hemi engine running normal 60BTDC timing.
at start up the blower belt went from smooth running to snaking showing that it was almost running backwards.
timing can come back to under 10 degrees, talk about pumping losses, what this saves in lost power is amazing.

This got my attention. I’m working on a cool Nitro Hemi deal right now.

Absolutely make sure you pull timing back to 5 degrees, otherwise you'll have a hole in your wallet
Be ready for the effect, no kidding.

My project is more on the Engineering side that the tuning side.
Now I’m curious which continent you’re on given the time of day

[johnny comelately]

This got my attention. I’m working on a cool Nitro Hemi deal right now.

Absolutely make sure you pull timing back to 5 degrees, otherwise you'll have a hole in your wallet
Be ready for the effect, no kidding.

My project is more on the Engineering side that the tuning side.
Now I’m curious which continent you’re on given the time of day

Australia

[MrPotatoHead]

Absolutely make sure you pull timing back to 5 degrees, otherwise you'll have a hole in your wallet
Be ready for the effect, no kidding.

My project is more on the Engineering side that the tuning side.
Now I’m curious which continent you’re on given the time of day

Australia

Hmmmmm JB?

[johnny comelately]

My project is more on the Engineering side that the tuning side.
Now I’m curious which continent you’re on given the time of day

Australia

Hmmmmm JB?

No, he is north of me

[MrPotatoHead]

Ahhh fair enough. I thought we might know each other

[godlameroso]

re the nitro engine, because you are dealing with liquid management the vertical placement (which had to be by engine design) worked well because it retained enough air in the spark chamber to initiate properly, as they drown easily (the usual reason they explode).
it had a multiple hole config of about 2mm diam.
this is important to charge the spark chamber. And because it is a hemi config giving plenty of depth for flame to do its thing.
this brings me to the concept honda pictures that were in here somewhere, it had multiple tiny holes that would be impossible to charge through, thus in the centre it looked like an additional ingress mechanism, but all fiction, wish poster would have put CONCEPT at the start or am I blind

You'd definitely need an ingress portal, does putting a velocity stack in the barrel outlet help? Trumpet shape and what not, or does a straight barrel work best?

[johnny comelately]

re the nitro engine, because you are dealing with liquid management the vertical placement (which had to be by engine design) worked well because it retained enough air in the spark chamber to initiate properly, as they drown easily (the usual reason they explode).
it had a multiple hole config of about 2mm diam.
this is important to charge the spark chamber. And because it is a hemi config giving plenty of depth for flame to do its thing.
this brings me to the concept honda pictures that were in here somewhere, it had multiple tiny holes that would be impossible to charge through, thus in the centre it looked like an additional ingress mechanism, but all fiction, wish poster would have put CONCEPT at the start or am I blind

You'd definitely need an ingress portal, does putting a velocity stack in the barrel outlet help? Trumpet shape and what not, or does a straight barrel work best?

this is the insert type for methanol, all volumes and ratios are important.
start with a small hole depending on chamber and bore and drill out until you are across most of the crown.
thats a 10mm plug thread, hole ended up at about 3.2mm for 93 bore.

[godlameroso]

That's neat, the spark plug threads into it, is it the kinetic energy of the flame or the unburned radicals or a combination thereof that ignites the lean mixture in the main chamber? I notice the barrel end is relatively straight, is this the best shape after trial and error?

[MrPotatoHead]

re the nitro engine, because you are dealing with liquid management the vertical placement (which had to be by engine design) worked well because it retained enough air in the spark chamber to initiate properly, as they drown easily (the usual reason they explode).
it had a multiple hole config of about 2mm diam.
this is important to charge the spark chamber. And because it is a hemi config giving plenty of depth for flame to do its thing.
this brings me to the concept honda pictures that were in here somewhere, it had multiple tiny holes that would be impossible to charge through, thus in the centre it looked like an additional ingress mechanism, but all fiction, wish poster would have put CONCEPT at the start or am I blind

I imagine on a Nitro engine getting the concept just right would be tricky as well, you wouldn't want any orifices where non burned nitro could hide as that could also be an explosion waiting to happen.

As far as the points you make about the small holes - i made the same points before when some were discussing the same system you quite rightly say should say "concept"
I love this forum but too often people post something from their imagination and others run with it as fact.

Thanks for sharing your insight!

[Muniix]

Aren’t you forgetting the mgu-h? The more (excess) air in the mixture, the more the mgu-h can extract from it. Also the turbo has been designed around a certain amount of air/exhaust gas coming through, i don’t believe this still works at lamba 1.0 of it is designed for higher values.

Not forgetting it, but from my view not all that related except it gets a significant benefit from better combustion.
This comes from:
1. a more complete and quicker combustion for a higher total amount of heat and
2. higher pressure exiting the exhaust valve/port

With ultra lean exhaust temperature is reduced 35% as combustion temperature is similarly reduced. The reduced rate of kinetics the number of high energy reactants and products moles bouncing around creating pressure vs spinning doing nothing for pressure at the higher temperature diffusion combustion of stoichiometry.
Not my perfect explanation but very close. Less heat is generated and lost to coolant at ultra lean, combustion temperature drops from 2560 Kelvin to ~1800 at lambda 1.85.
The second law of thermodynamics, equilibrium states that a given temperature produces specific moles higher temperature produced different species, mass and elements are conserved.