2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

makecry wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:08 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:15 am
Time for Peter Prodromu to go! I never saw him as any better than any other aerodynamaicist, it was Newey's coat tail he was riding all along. His car is 1.5 seconds slower than his old master's.
His solutions are being copied up and down the grid. Car is a dog mechanically. Aero wise it seems fine.
I don't fully agree with PZ but the problem is aero. Nothing on the car works in isolation. If you're piling on rear wing to give you more low speed traction then the problem is your aero doesn't work at low speeds. If they fix this (I have outlined several times where to look) then they don't need to pile on rear wing, the diffuser will do it's job, and will gain top speed as well as in the low speed corners.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

techman
techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

1- There is a minimum car weight that most cars are at, you can't go lighter. Most cars are lighter than the min weight but add Ballast to meet the min weight and get a perfect car balance.
i know there is minimum weight but i remember eric said that there are cars out there that are much heavy, so for them add ballast is hard, while mclaren can add ballast for their benefit.

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

techman wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:22 pm
1- There is a minimum car weight that most cars are at, you can't go lighter. Most cars are lighter than the min weight but add Ballast to meet the min weight and get a perfect car balance.
i know there is minimum weight but i remember eric said that there are cars out there that are much heavy, so for them add ballast is hard, while mclaren can add ballast for their benefit.
Unless the car has serious balance issues, no additional ballast above the minimum weight is worth it. Reducing car weight is quite difficult too mid season, usually requiring a new chassis.

It's like others said, the suspension that acts up. Probably not something they can fix this year either.
#AeroFrodo

techman
techman
-16
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Unless the car has serious balance issues, no additional ballast above the minimum weight is worth it. Reducing car weight is quite difficult too mid season, usually requiring a new chassis.
i agree but i bellive what eric said was mclaren was a very light car so they can add the ballast to get the min weight and also the car balance, whereas other he mention like force india are very heavy to start with, which mean they might have balance issues

User avatar
dren
288
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

We'll know it was suspension issues when they get rid of that rear upper wishbone configuration and go to something more standard next year. They went with that configuration for aero gains, so perhaps they are still driven a bit too much by the aero department. It's what put the pressure on Honda to make the 'size zero' unit.
Honda!

f1rules
f1rules
347
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

they said themselves they kept the car the same for this year, only redesigned area is the rear part especially gearbox and suspension, probably that influenced weight distribution, no matter, with no other major changes and seing its a low speed traction issue, everything in my opinion points towards gearbox/rear suspension problem. Maybe they ran more rear df to keep temps in the tires and that way gain traction, because as mentioned, wing df dont make a big difference at low speeds

M840TR
M840TR
382
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Car doesn't have balance issues, very stable. No one knows about weight but small wheelbase indicates probably no such problem; also new paint this year lost em even more weight IIRC.

!Technical
!Technical
2
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:27 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)

User avatar
mclaren111
223
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)

:lol: =D> :lol:

User avatar
Big Tea
124
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)
Not with Toyota's luck
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

PhillipM
PhillipM
364
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

I'm still not going with aero, as much as you push the boardboards as a fix-all solution, yes, they need development (new BB parts coming for France, btw) - as does the rest of the aero, but it's not too bad in mid and high speed corners, it struggles at low speed, heavy traction circuits, where mechanical grip is far more of a factor, in both high and low downforce configs.

They have a fundamental kinematic/compliance and/or tyre conditioning issue imo.

User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)
New development? :wtf:
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Jacinto
Jacinto
1
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:01 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:01 pm
!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)
New development? :wtf:
Alonso next race is 24 Hours of Le Mans

User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

PhillipM wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:49 pm
I'm still not going with aero, as much as you push the boardboards as a fix-all solution, yes, they need development (new BB parts coming for France, btw) - as does the rest of the aero, but it's not too bad in mid and high speed corners, it struggles at low speed, heavy traction circuits, where mechanical grip is far more of a factor, in both high and low downforce configs.

They have a fundamental kinematic/compliance and/or tyre conditioning issue imo.
It's not a fix all solution, it's an area that needs fixing to get the most from the chassis. I know they have really good braking stability and downforce in the mid high speed corners. What's lacking is diffuser instability at low speeds, so they have to compromise by running more wing which hurts top speed. When their diffuser is more stable at low speeds it lets them run less rear wing and the car will work better at low speeds. Whatever chassis or platform deficiency doesn't help, however I maintain, the aero is a big reason they struggle in low speed.

The good news is that it's not unfixable, and other than the bargeboards the car is extremely good in most every aspect. It won't make them faster than everyone but bargeboards along with the front wing are critical for sealing the diffuser.

Again I'm not claiming a cure all, just that developing this area is their best move because it can bring immediate gains, and it will stay relatively the same for next year.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Jacinto wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:03 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:01 pm
!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Despite all the issues, I'm quite positive that Alonso will be able to get a podium in the next race. Actually, he is in with a good chance to win. =)
New development? :wtf:
Alonso next race is 24 Hours of Le Mans
#-o Jeez I'm doing bad today.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee