2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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bauc
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by bauc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:08 am

techman wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 am
Lets not jump the gun okey, there are still 14 races to go and Mclaren is only 10 points behind Renault.
do you expect to mclaren to overtake renault with points at the end of season?
Yes I do, and even if they do not and end up 5th it would be a difference of night & day compared to last year.
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:22 am

RonDennis wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:52 pm
How about giving Zak Brown some actual time. Whitmarsh and Dennis are the people that put McLaren in the current state.
In my opinion they should have kept Jost Capito.
On second thought: I agree with you on this one.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 am

Crazy thought... 💭 If Fernando continues with Mclaren in F1 next year, and Stoffel still isn't quite on his level yet, but shows improvement, would it makes sense if he (Stoffel) and Lando share the 2nd race seat? Mclaren won't be title contenders next year, so constructors points still add up in the race to be 4th best? It would at least put Lando in a race car, relieving some pressure off Mclaren. I still believe the future of Mclaren is Stoffel and Lando.
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by tok-tokkie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:05 am

diffuser wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:55 pm
BrunoH wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 pm
anyone have telemetry data like this from 2018?
I haven't tried to extract it yet. This was easy as it was already extracted...I just need to plot it.
Those graphs are brilliant. But what is it a plot of? Take the Alonso graph - is it for a single representative lap, his fastest lap, or a composite average of some kind. I would think comparing the fastest lap of each driver would be the fairest comparison.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:24 am

Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 am
Crazy thought... 💭 If Fernando continues with Mclaren in F1 next year, and Stoffel still isn't quite on his level yet, but shows improvement, would it makes sense if he (Stoffel) and Lando share the 2nd race seat? Mclaren won't be title contenders next year, so constructors points still add up in the race to be 4th best? It would at least put Lando in a race car, relieving some pressure off Mclaren. I still believe the future of Mclaren is Stoffel and Lando.
I fear Lando wont be much better. vandoorne has a near perfect record. He dominated like no one else before him in lesser categories. I just feel that thehhe is a bit down trodden in a crappy car in a team that's focused on Alonso
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:27 am

A better link to the reported staff revolt at McLaren: https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-f ... ervention/
Whitmarsh told the Daily Mail that some time in the past 19 months, the time since Zak Brown was brought in as the new boss, “people at McLaren said they would send me a letter about the situation. I told them not to send it to me, but to Mansour.”

He’s also had his own chat with Ojjeh about McLaren’s troubles.

“I piled in a little bit,” he said. “I love the team and I am desperately sad to see what it has become.

“It needs a big change of approach. There is too much politics between the main figures. I think a number of them have to go. I have explained my view to Mansour and it is for the shareholders to decide what to do.

“The team used to be all about winning in Formula One. Now they are looking at other avenues — going to race in IndyCar and Le Mans, for example. They are great things in themselves, but McLaren going in that direction, rather than making grand prix racing their sole priority, makes me shudder.

“I live locally and I bump into friends who work at McLaren. They are disappointed with what is happening and remonstrate with me.

“Tim Goss’s departure pitched me over the edge. Tim has a fantastic intellect, and is a hard-working, non-political, value-adding member of the team. He was scapegoated. He may not have all the answers, but he would work on a solution from first principles.”

Whitmarsh says he is open to helping McLaren rediscover their lost form, they only have to ask.

“If a delegation showed up at my door, I wouldn’t turn them away,” he added. “They know where I am.”
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by dren » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am

James Allen had a nice article highlighting the periods of when Mclaren was 100% focused on F1 racing. Those periods they had F1 success. When they started down other paths, they succeeded with those but the F1 side suffered.
Honda!

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 pm

tok-tokkie wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:05 am
diffuser wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:55 pm
BrunoH wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:27 pm
anyone have telemetry data like this from 2018?
I haven't tried to extract it yet. This was easy as it was already extracted...I just need to plot it.
Those graphs are brilliant. But what is it a plot of? Take the Alonso graph - is it for a single representative lap, his fastest lap, or a composite average of some kind. I would think comparing the fastest lap of each driver would be the fairest comparison.

https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... -analysis/

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:50 pm

mclaren111 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:22 am
RonDennis wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:52 pm
How about giving Zak Brown some actual time. Whitmarsh and Dennis are the people that put McLaren in the current state.
In my opinion they should have kept Jost Capito.
On second thought: I agree with you on this one.
I don't know Josh from a hole in the wall but have you looked at what Josh is doing now ? Working with VW on road cars. Nobody else had any interest in him.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:27 am
A better link to the reported staff revolt at McLaren: https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-f ... ervention/
Whitmarsh told the Daily Mail that some time in the past 19 months, the time since Zak Brown was brought in as the new boss, “people at McLaren said they would send me a letter about the situation. I told them not to send it to me, but to Mansour.”

He’s also had his own chat with Ojjeh about McLaren’s troubles.

“I piled in a little bit,” he said. “I love the team and I am desperately sad to see what it has become.

“It needs a big change of approach. There is too much politics between the main figures. I think a number of them have to go. I have explained my view to Mansour and it is for the shareholders to decide what to do.

“The team used to be all about winning in Formula One. Now they are looking at other avenues — going to race in IndyCar and Le Mans, for example. They are great things in themselves, but McLaren going in that direction, rather than making grand prix racing their sole priority, makes me shudder.

“I live locally and I bump into friends who work at McLaren. They are disappointed with what is happening and remonstrate with me.

“Tim Goss’s departure pitched me over the edge. Tim has a fantastic intellect, and is a hard-working, non-political, value-adding member of the team. He was scapegoated. He may not have all the answers, but he would work on a solution from first principles.”

Whitmarsh says he is open to helping McLaren rediscover their lost form, they only have to ask.

“If a delegation showed up at my door, I wouldn’t turn them away,” he added. “They know where I am.”
Not a surprised that Whitmarsh is sympathetic to a friend being canned. Sure it's still raw for him.

I'm also not sure what to make of them being unhappy from EB telling them they didn't understand why they were slow. Have they been BS'd for so long in the past that they're expecting it and not honesty?

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:06 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:24 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 am
Crazy thought... 💭 If Fernando continues with Mclaren in F1 next year, and Stoffel still isn't quite on his level yet, but shows improvement, would it makes sense if he (Stoffel) and Lando share the 2nd race seat? Mclaren won't be title contenders next year, so constructors points still add up in the race to be 4th best? It would at least put Lando in a race car, relieving some pressure off Mclaren. I still believe the future of Mclaren is Stoffel and Lando.
I fear Lando wont be much better. vandoorne has a near perfect record. He dominated like no one else before him in lesser categories. I just feel that thehhe is a bit down trodden in a crappy car in a team that's focused on Alonso
McLaren should have bought/made a deal with a team before they got involved in Honda. They needed more PUs on the track back then and they need a proving ground for their drivers. Look at all the drivers RBR pulls through STR and how few of them progress up to RBR. Lando would be ready to jump in, not need another year at running at all the tracks to get up to speed. Also the comparison between Stoffel and Lando would be easy.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by ispano6 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:27 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm

Not a surprised that Whitmarsh is sympathetic to a friend being canned. Sure it's still raw for him.

I'm also not sure what to make of them being unhappy from EB telling them they didn't understand why they were slow. Have they been BS'd for so long in the past that they're expecting it and not honesty?
It is beyond me that Tim Goss was let go and that Matt Morris is still there. Zak Brown is clearly catering to Alonso and Alonso clearly thinks he can just hop skip to another category and get the best ride possible. Not sure what Toyota was given as part of the deal to mooch a 24hr Lemans win but as soon as his embarrassing retirement from Indy 500 last year the tone had changed and his sights were set to denigrate Honda and join Toyota to fulfill his triple crown. Him and Zak probably are trying to bed Chevy now for next year's Indy 500 and I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso suddenly quit WEC now that his short term goal has been achieved. Alonso will probably start to perform better in F1 now that he can focus back on F1 until the next Indy season.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McHonda » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:42 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:27 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm

Not a surprised that Whitmarsh is sympathetic to a friend being canned. Sure it's still raw for him.

I'm also not sure what to make of them being unhappy from EB telling them they didn't understand why they were slow. Have they been BS'd for so long in the past that they're expecting it and not honesty?
It is beyond me that Tim Goss was let go and that Matt Morris is still there. Zak Brown is clearly catering to Alonso and Alonso clearly thinks he can just hop skip to another category and get the best ride possible. Not sure what Toyota was given as part of the deal to mooch a 24hr Lemans win but as soon as his embarrassing retirement from Indy 500 last year the tone had changed and his sights were set to denigrate Honda and join Toyota to fulfill his triple crown. Him and Zak probably are trying to bed Chevy now for next year's Indy 500 and I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso suddenly quit WEC now that his short term goal has been achieved. Alonso will probably start to perform better in F1 now that he can focus back on F1 until the next Indy season.
What a load of old rubbish. The only embarrassing thing about the Indy venture was Honda's reliability and he's been driving brilliantly for McLaren since he came back so not sure how he can perform any better, he's single-handedly saving McLaren's season and keeping them in the fight for 4th. And now he's deciding who keeps their job or not?

He's a DRIVER. I understand you've had a tough weekend with his Lemans success but at least try to keep your tantrum in the realms of plausible.

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Andres125sx » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:32 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:27 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm

Not a surprised that Whitmarsh is sympathetic to a friend being canned. Sure it's still raw for him.

I'm also not sure what to make of them being unhappy from EB telling them they didn't understand why they were slow. Have they been BS'd for so long in the past that they're expecting it and not honesty?
It is beyond me that Tim Goss was let go and that Matt Morris is still there. Zak Brown is clearly catering to Alonso and Alonso clearly thinks he can just hop skip to another category and get the best ride possible. Not sure what Toyota was given as part of the deal to mooch a 24hr Lemans win but as soon as his embarrassing retirement from Indy 500 last year the tone had changed and his sights were set to denigrate Honda and join Toyota to fulfill his triple crown. Him and Zak probably are trying to bed Chevy now for next year's Indy 500 and I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso suddenly quit WEC now that his short term goal has been achieved. Alonso will probably start to perform better in F1 now that he can focus back on F1 until the next Indy season.

And now you´ll say you´re not a hater :mrgreen: :lol: #-o

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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by ispano6 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Yes it was embarrassing for him nonetheless. Did you not see Zak and Alonso's look when Sato won? One does not just go one off to Indy 500 and win it. It takes years for the best in Indy and some haven't still. Alexander Rossi is a standout exception due to risk and circumstance but I'm sure Alonso thought he's better than Rossi and if AR could do it in his first season that he could in a one off race. Rubbish? Please, Toyota did not need Alonso to win the 24hr Lemans! What do you think the opinion of other drivers are when an outsider comes in to steal the show? How many other drivers were shafted when the WEC/Toyota moved a race to accommodate Alonso? And not just the drivers but the staff at McLaren who have to deal with it as well. The amount of pay going to one driver is lopsided and 20million of that could go far in the motivation of staff and hiring of key personnel. I don't think I'm alone in my thinking, just willing to lay it all out there.

BTW, I was no longer a fan the day Alonso said GP2 engine at Suzuka, a race I attended in person. I've been following Formula 1 since 1986 and I have no idols, though the closest would be Nigel Mansell and Jenson Button.