2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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PhillipM
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PhillipM » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 pm

Exactly as predicted when they were talking about the switch last year. Mclaren did all the hard work and then handed it to Red Bull on a silver platter.

Ron Dennis must be laughing his arse off.

muramasa
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by muramasa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Do you honestly believe Toyota did this in the spirit of competition? It is all a marketing ploy and
Marketing is always a part of reasons but no way anywhere near all. It would be fool for any makers to ignore the chance to hire drivers of Alonso caliber, and they eventually hired him because Alonso proved competitive and cooperative in evaluation so that they were convinced that they would achieve success with him.

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Even if one car crashed and burned the second car two laps behind would have won anyway.
Even his co driver had to serve 1min penalty? And it's Alonso's mind blowing stints that cut the gap to #7 a lot and eventually contributed to win massively.

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm
The second car even slowed to get behind to have a photo finish formation.
Is it the first time you watched Le Mans? That's Le Mans or endurance ritual, what they always do when they dont have competitor within the same lap or two, since forever.

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm
I know this because I work with all the major car manufacturers selling cars in the United States and their intention is simply conquest.
Hope that is not the case, your lack of knowledge, perspective and insight is bit alarming for that job. Anyway never take anyone who self proclaim insider or being involved in whatever form seriously, that's kind of basic internet literacy.

jz11
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by jz11 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm

PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 pm
Exactly as predicted when they were talking about the switch last year. Mclaren did all the hard work and then handed it to Red Bull on a silver platter.

Ron Dennis must be laughing his arse off.
and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?

AJI
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:08 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by AJI » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:50 pm

jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 pm
Exactly as predicted when they were talking about the switch last year. Mclaren did all the hard work and then handed it to Red Bull on a silver platter.

Ron Dennis must be laughing his arse off.
and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?
I think he means by taking all the risk, getting no reward, and then making yet another terrible decision by handing your only chance at success to that upstart 'fizzy drinks company'.

RonDennis
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:05 pm

It wouldn't have been a complete fail if they had produced a decent car instead of their current trainwreck. Less money, less support, poor staff, poor chassis, you wonder when this nightmare is going to stop.

muramasa
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by muramasa » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:14 pm

jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm
and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?
That's disrespectful to McLaren. McLaren indeed provided alot of support to Honda and Hasegawa was always saying they cannot thank McLaren enough for providing all the support without any stint, that without McLaren support they wouldnt have been able to enter F1 in 2015 and make it through the season in the first place, and so on, and no he's not flattering or anything, he does mean it. Of course at the same time they have bitter feeling as well, but gratitude and dissatisfaction can live together in the professional.

Just look at hardware alone, ES was joint development with McLaren, McLaren was manufacturing air intake tube for compressor and inlet plenum, Honda was arranging and purchasing components through McLaren channel. Also all those intangibles like methodology, operation structure etc. Honda was relying on McLaren a lot and McLaren helped Honda a lot.
There are just too much mocking and bashing based on one sided narrow minded view, please appreciate and respect all the participants.

jz11
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:32 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by jz11 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:21 pm

AJI wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:50 pm
jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 pm
Exactly as predicted when they were talking about the switch last year. Mclaren did all the hard work and then handed it to Red Bull on a silver platter.

Ron Dennis must be laughing his arse off.
and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?
I think he means by taking all the risk, getting no reward, and then making yet another terrible decision by handing your only chance at success to that upstart 'fizzy drinks company'.
and I read - pushing Honda to deliver the engine earlier than they said they could, while putting restrictions on size/weight asking to make smallest and lightest engine in unreasonable amount of time, and when Honda doesn't deliver, put all the blame on them

they greatly increased the possible failure of the project themselves by asking for results too early with the spec they came up with themselves, and when the breakthrough is on the horizon, the relationship has been damaged beyond repair and they had to make the wrong decision - just so that they could keep some composure and look better than what they are

as for the fizzy drinks company, that is quite an insult to a team that doesn't just give up and wait for miracles like some other team, they are so far ahead of works Renault, it isn't even funny, and challenge for wins teams that have clearly better power units (which Renault STILL DOESN'T HAVE!), so it is quite disrespectful to talk about them in that way

McLaren dug their own grave, but their fans still don't see that there are very serious problems there in the management and just keep thinking of them as they were 10+ years ago, before Canada Zak said in the interview something along the lines - "we're looking good for Q3", and look where they qualified and finished

there is way too much bs coming from them when they need to keep quiet and work their arses off to improve things, not just invent claims out of thin air and give false hope

I'm not saying Hondas engine was a gift from the gods for McLaren, but it is not just Hondas fault, and the guy that downvoted my sarcastic previous comment clearly doesn't get that p.s. "19 Jun 2018, 15:51 -1 bullshitt REP_CHANGE Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault by jz11 -1" nice one there champ, I learned a lot from that reason you gave there for the downvote
Last edited by jz11 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bill
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:28 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Bill » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:34 pm

No Mclaren engineers supported Honda, that's what he said they maintained their professionalism,the management on the hand cleaned their dity Landry in public that can't be disputed,I talking mclaren in 2017 after Ron Dennis left thing changed ,the basically threw them under the bus basically protecting their jobs

radosav
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by radosav » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:35 pm

jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:21 pm
AJI wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:50 pm
jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm


and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?
I think he means by taking all the risk, getting no reward, and then making yet another terrible decision by handing your only chance at success to that upstart 'fizzy drinks company'.
and I read - pushing Honda to deliver the engine earlier than they said they could, while putting restrictions on size/weight asking to make smallest and lightest engine in unreasonable amount of time, and when Honda doesn't deliver, put all the blame on them

they greatly increased the possible failure of the project themselves by asking for results too early with the spec they came up with themselves, and when the breakthrough is on the horizon, the relationship has been damaged beyond repair and they had to make the wrong decision - just so that they could keep some composure and look better than what they are

as for the fizzy drinks company, that is quite an insult to a team that doesn't just give up and wait for miracles like some other team, they are so far ahead of works Renault, it isn't even funny, and challenge for wins teams that have clearly better power units (which Renault STILL DOESN'T HAVE!), so it is quite disrespectful to talk about them in that way

McLaren dug their own grave, but their fans still don't see that there are very serious problems there in the management and just keep thinking of them as they were 10+ years ago, before Canada Zak said in the interview something along the lines - "we're looking good for Q3", and look where they qualified and finished

there is way too much bs coming from them when they need to keep quiet and work their arses off to improve things, not just invent claims out of thin air and give false hope

I'm not saying Hondas engine was a gift from the gods for McLaren, but it is not just Hondas fault, and the guy that downvoted my sarcastic previous comment clearly doesn't get that
Spanish GP, 2017, friday FP1, car only managed to run few corners doing outlap.
"
Alonso himself, who left the track immediately after the problem to go and play tennis, said he was not totally shocked about what had happened.

"In a way it is not a surprise," he explained. "We couldn't complete the formation lap on the Sunday in Russia and here we couldn't manage to complete the out-lap.

"It was more-or-less expected that we would have these problems right now, so it was a shame because here in front of the home people it's frustrating."
Please take notice on Russia formation lap breakdown too.

McHonda
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by McHonda » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:38 pm

jz11 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:37 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:27 pm
Exactly as predicted when they were talking about the switch last year. Mclaren did all the hard work and then handed it to Red Bull on a silver platter.

Ron Dennis must be laughing his arse off.
and by McLaren hard work you mean the bashing of Honda and putting all the blame on them for recent failures, because the "best chassis on the grid"?
No he means helping Honda with the ERS which they knew next to nothing about, absorbing the ridiculous performance of 2015,first half of 2016 and first half of 2017 which cost them big long term sponsors like Esso and Tag and now after benefiting from Honda's struggles financially by picking up those sponsors Red Bull could then run Honda in a meaningless (to them) B team until they are in the ballpark with Renault and then swoop in and benefit again by getting a Honda who have all those struggles behind them and are looking as good as Renault.

Red Bull literally benefited greatly (financially) from Honda's struggles and will now reap the benefit when Honda come good. Which is all true and very uncomfortable for the decision makers at McLaren and obviously gutting for those fans that wanted success with McHonda.

At least Williams got wins,titles,sponsors and great seasons doing their donkey work in the 80's before McLaren swooped in. This time McLaren are effectively Spirit and it's going to cost someone dearly.

mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:28 pm

Wonderful, Honda vs Mclaren again.

Funny how when things don't go great everyone scrabbles to point fingers at someone. Perceptions change fast though.
If a new rear suspension, or now bargeboard philosophy is fitted to the car by race 10 , 11 or 12 and the car becomes competitive, there will be different tunes. Then someone might point out that both the team and Alonso had said very early on, that the team won't be competitive until the second half of the season, and that if they chase podiums, it will be the end of the season, and not a blink of an eye will occur whilst individuals seamlessly move opinion like their opinion was never otherwise, or that they ever forgot those words were said by the team and Alonso, and everything will be well with the world.

Of course, it might yet still be a sh*tstorm, but they have said wait until the back end of the year to see what they can do. Is that too hard? The universe doesn't give a flying fig for the tantrums, won't be affected by it. Nor will Honda for that matter, they are too busy with other things.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:32 pm

Bottom line, Mclaren need to focus on themselves and concentrate on getting the issues with the MCL33 sorted to a certain level and switch focus to 2019. Red Bull have proved you can challenge for podiums and win races with Renault, so it's down to them.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

godlameroso
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:19 pm

Well if they need a validations engineer with aero and thermodynamics experience, who is also a complete gear head, I'm available :p
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:23 pm

mwillems wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:28 pm
Wonderful, Honda vs Mclaren again.

Funny how when things don't go great everyone scrabbles to point fingers at someone. Perceptions change fast though.
If a new rear suspension, or now bargeboard philosophy is fitted to the car by race 10 , 11 or 12 and the car becomes competitive, there will be different tunes. Then someone might point out that both the team and Alonso had said very early on, that the team won't be competitive until the second half of the season, and that if they chase podiums, it will be the end of the season, and not a blink of an eye will occur whilst individuals seamlessly move opinion like their opinion was never otherwise, or that they ever forgot those words were said by the team and Alonso, and everything will be well with the world.

Of course, it might yet still be a sh*tstorm, but they have said wait until the back end of the year to see what they can do. Is that too hard? The universe doesn't give a flying fig for the tantrums, won't be affected by it. Nor will Honda for that matter, they are too busy with other things.
Nobody expected that McLaren would beat Red Bull, but come on. You're fighting with teams like Haas, Force India and Toro Rosso. It's not like they're missing half a second, we're talking about seconds. That's simply unacceptable when you talked about having one of the best cars in 2017, they said goodbye to a works deals and tenths of millions. It's crisis at McLaren and let's hope something good comes out if it. I really don't understand how some are still defending them, they're the laughing stock of F1 right now.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:59 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:32 pm
Bottom line, Mclaren need to focus on themselves and concentrate on getting the issues with the MCL33 sorted to a certain level and switch focus to 2019. Red Bull have proved you can challenge for podiums and win races with Renault, so it's down to them.
Yep, nothing has changed much from yesterday... Renault is a viable option.