2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Zynerji
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Are the teams still allowed to trade a straight line test day for full scale wind tunnel testing?

If so, I'd be sending a big package to the Windshear tunnel to see what "exactly" is going on around the actual car...

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:05
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.

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mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:30
mwillems wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:05
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
I'm questioning whether they knew about the issues before or after Spain. Putting updates on is probably the right thing to do, as whilst they don't know what the issue is, adding parts that makes the issue worse or better will help isolate where the problem is. Trial and error, not exactly F1 but it's all they seem to have right now.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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GPR-A wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:30
They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.
I believe the Toyota is a 50 or 60% scale, where the Windshear is 100% (actual car, not a model).

I remember a few years ago someone (Manor maybe?) was able to trade a straight line test day for a day in that tunnel.

If that is still within the rules, I think its time to get the actual car in a full sized tunnel as a correlation before doing anything else that might just make it worse.

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mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC
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Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 20:19
The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC
The straight-line test day trade got around that rule at the time..... I don't know if it is still a loophole that is open to be exploited.

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mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Zynerji wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 20:26
mwillems wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 20:19
The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC
The straight-line test day trade got around that rule at the time..... I don't know if it is still a loophole that is open to be exploited.
Apologies i misread that. Might be a nice idea,, but they have FP1 and 2 for that. Flow vis and airflow monitors plus the in season tests, including a recent one in spain. I think they are a bit clueless in both situations. Still I'd like to know when they realised there was an issue.

Anyone have any recollection of if or when flow vis and aero monitoring frames started to focus on a given area?
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Zynerji
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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I don't think the track testing is anywhere as good as putting it in a full sized tunnel. Smoke trails with high speed cameras I'm sure gives much more data than flow vis on a dirty track with cross winds.

But, not my circus, not my monkeys.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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techman wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:04
I don't think they lied to us. I think they were just wrong. there is a difference.
:lol: :lol: ok i am out and i cant stop laughing. I agree mclaren never lied and everthing they say is the truth. =D> :lol:!
Is that all it took to get rid of you ? If only I would have known!

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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They only positive thing about those wind tunnel problems is that the staff might produce something decent when it's fixed.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:30
mwillems wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:05
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
Really, you know that for a fact?

JoeE
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Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 15:36

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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GPR-A wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 19:30
They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.
FI seem to be ok but Williams are also having correlation problems using the same wind tunnel

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13640 ... -from-role

PhillipM
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Actually FI also had correlation problems around the bottom of the sidepods near the floor early on - which is exactly where Mclaren has been running flowvis and pitiot arrays for the past 3 races.

I did wonder if they were having seperation issues as you could see on the flowvis back in Canada and Monaco, but I just put it down to the access panel/exit vent in the area at the time.

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mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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PhillipM wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 22:03
Actually FI also had correlation problems around the bottom of the sidepods near the floor early on - which is exactly where Mclaren has been running flowvis and pitiot arrays for the past 3 races.

I did wonder if they were having seperation issues as you could see on the flowvis back in Canada and Monaco, but I just put it down to the access panel/exit vent in the area at the time.

So since they banged on the new nose. I wonder if it really did make it worse, if they suspected anything before and if they essentially focused their development on fixing the issue. Development will have stagnated somewhat since then in an effort to fix the issue, which would explain why we are going backwards somewhat.

But then why on earth were we competitive at Monaco? What we are being told does not add up to me. This doesn't make sense.

Supposed issues with low speed traction, but we go to a track with almost nothing but low speed traction and we produce some very good speed.

Please, someone explain how this can be the case?
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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