2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

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designf1
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by designf1 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:58 pm

Last edited by designf1 on Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:47 am

TheGkbrk wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:15 pm
Wondering how those blue hards will be performing
Like last year's softs :wink:
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Vasconia
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Vasconia » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:25 am

dans79 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:02 pm
Nuvolari wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:25 pm
Silverstone is a very different prospect. I think many will be surprised with Ferrari's pace here.
Maybe by how bad it might be!
http://www.grandprix.com/news/ferrari-c ... stone.html
"On paper, Silverstone looks quite difficult for us. Aerodynamics are very important and it will be a difficult race for us, so we have to stay focused," Arrivabene told Sky Italia.
I Can't remember Arrivabene ever making a statement like this prior to the weekend.
Because as far I can see here Arribabene has not said anytying about the aero package.

http://formula1.ferrari.com/en/f1-2018- ... e-comment/

zibby43
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by zibby43 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:15 am

Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:37 pm
More downforce and more drag combined with a bit more power from PU makes you faster in S3. S2 for Ferrari is down to aero efficiency, better acceleration due to less drag.

Also, Merc looked like it didn't roll at all in corners 9 and 10, which is what they are working on for a number of years. Other then all this, they were able to extract maximum from tyres in Qualy, their pace in the race was not that better then competition in the first stint (primarily Max, Kimi kept steadily loosing a few tenths every lap, and the same for Dani Ric and Vettel because of Kimi in front of them). Needless to discuss second stint.

That's just my view, let's turn towards the Cradle of F1. :)
Have you read the analysis by Mark Hughes and Giorgio Piola on Merc's new update?

They heaped a ton of praise on Merc's ability to come up with an upgrade that 1) increases downforce and 2) decreases drag.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/tech ... rhaul.html

Excerpt:

"The latest Mercedes sidepod changes stop short of adopting the Ferrari-style geometry, which would have necessitated lowering the upper side impact bars, which in turn would have required changes to the shape of the monocoque. But what they have done whilst retaining the previous position of the bars moves it towards the Ferrari philosophy.

The gentler transition of the bargeboard footplate will likely also create less drag. So the combined effect of the whole change could even be more downforce and less drag, a rarely-achieved holy grail for an F1 aerodynamicist - usually extra downforce comes at the expense of extra drag."

dans79
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by dans79 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:41 am

Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:25 am
Because as far I can see here Arribabene has not said anytying about the aero package.

http://formula1.ferrari.com/en/f1-2018- ... e-comment/
huh?

Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Vanja #66 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:12 am

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:15 am
Have you read the analysis by Mark Hughes and Giorgio Piola on Merc's new update?

They heaped a ton of praise on Merc's ability to come up with an upgrade that 1) increases downforce and 2) decreases drag.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/tech ... rhaul.html

Excerpt:

"The latest Mercedes sidepod changes stop short of adopting the Ferrari-style geometry, which would have necessitated lowering the upper side impact bars, which in turn would have required changes to the shape of the monocoque. But what they have done whilst retaining the previous position of the bars moves it towards the Ferrari philosophy.

The gentler transition of the bargeboard footplate will likely also create less drag. So the combined effect of the whole change could even be more downforce and less drag, a rarely-achieved holy grail for an F1 aerodynamicist - usually extra downforce comes at the expense of extra drag."
No, I haven't and I don't plan to read those anymore. Their credibility was standing on glass legs even before their piece on Ferrari wing mirrors directing air into top inlet. After that, it was shattered beyond repair.

I've already said in W09 thread that this update is looking bigger than it is and Mercedes obviously didn't gain 3-4 tenths from France to Austria with it. It's an improvement, no doubt, but not a huge one in any way.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

zibby43
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by zibby43 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:32 am

Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:12 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:15 am
Have you read the analysis by Mark Hughes and Giorgio Piola on Merc's new update?

They heaped a ton of praise on Merc's ability to come up with an upgrade that 1) increases downforce and 2) decreases drag.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/tech ... rhaul.html

Excerpt:

"The latest Mercedes sidepod changes stop short of adopting the Ferrari-style geometry, which would have necessitated lowering the upper side impact bars, which in turn would have required changes to the shape of the monocoque. But what they have done whilst retaining the previous position of the bars moves it towards the Ferrari philosophy.

The gentler transition of the bargeboard footplate will likely also create less drag. So the combined effect of the whole change could even be more downforce and less drag, a rarely-achieved holy grail for an F1 aerodynamicist - usually extra downforce comes at the expense of extra drag."
No, I haven't and I don't plan to read those anymore. Their credibility was standing on glass legs even before their piece on Ferrari wing mirrors directing air into top inlet. After that, it was shattered beyond repair.

I've already said in W09 thread that this update is looking bigger than it is and Mercedes obviously didn't gain 3-4 tenths from France to Austria with it. It's an improvement, no doubt, but not a huge one in any way.
Whoa, easy there. Just asking a question lol. I mean, I was impressed that the gap in qualifying was as big as it was on a track where I expected to measure the gap in hundredths, not tenths.

And I've seen your comments in that thread. I must've missed the why as to why you don't think it's functional in a significantly beneficial way. Look forward to that post.

Vasconia
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Vasconia » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:04 am

dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:41 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:25 am
Because as far I can see here Arribabene has not said anytying about the aero package.

http://formula1.ferrari.com/en/f1-2018- ... e-comment/
huh?
In this official statement he doesn´t mention the aero thing. I was just pointing out this.

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:18 am

Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:04 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:41 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:25 am
Because as far I can see here Arribabene has not said anytying about the aero package.

http://formula1.ferrari.com/en/f1-2018- ... e-comment/
huh?
In this official statement he doesn´t mention the aero thing. I was just pointing out this.
Well the aero thing will most likely be a very small change just like in most of the previous races.

Edit:
Apparently they'll bring a new diffuser and floor.
Last edited by MtthsMlw on Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Schumix
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Schumix » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:19 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:19 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:37 pm
. Plus Hamilton has a habit of talking bull**** whenever he's overtaken or about to be overtaken so I don't believe whatever he said on the radio.
He mentioned power issues a while before he was overtaken.
I don't remember how many times we heard Hamilton claiming in the radio that he was facing troubles (tyre degradation or loss of power) and in the same time he slamed the lap record of the race!

Whatever is the reason, any race driver can be overtaken and defeated as it was the case for Hamilton.

The understanding of some technical people now is that Mercedes brought major upgrades that really work great but in the same time these upgrades apply too much load and stress on the tyres and the whole package. This is why they are in trouble in dirty air. When they are in clean air in front of the race, they achieve to manage their tyres whatever the type is.
Their opponents know that Mercedes is on the edge for the tyre management in dirty air and they will make the most of it by pushing them. It is so simple...

F1Krof
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by F1Krof » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:04 am

Schumix wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:19 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:19 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:37 pm
. Plus Hamilton has a habit of talking bull**** whenever he's overtaken or about to be overtaken so I don't believe whatever he said on the radio.
He mentioned power issues a while before he was overtaken.
I don't remember how many times we heard Hamilton claiming in the radio that he was facing troubles (tyre degradation or loss of power) and in the same time he slamed the lap record of the race!

Whatever is the reason, any race driver can be overtaken and defeated as it was the case for Hamilton.

The understanding of some technical people now is that Mercedes brought major upgrades that really work great but in the same time these upgrades apply too much load and stress on the tyres and the whole package. This is why they are in trouble in dirty air. When they are in clean air in front of the race, they achieve to manage their tyres whatever the type is.
Their opponents know that Mercedes is on the edge for the tyre management in dirty air and they will make the most of it by pushing them. It is so simple...
I wonder if the competition will update their strategies knowingly to disrupt their races using this weakness. Apparently Merc cannot overtake, so anytime there is a track advantage vs fresh tires, I bet other teams will choose track advantage.
Wroom wroom

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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by FrukostScones » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:58 am

Ferrari update for Silverstone? Always was a step back or in the wrong direction. Car is fine, they should not do a thing.
I think with all this aero and Turn 1 DRS RedBull will be able to fine tune their car for another VES victory despite the tyre compounds and tread thickness. Lets hope it will still be scorching hot with mad climax thunderstorms and ALO finishing on the podium.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

iotar__
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by iotar__ » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:11 pm

F1Krof wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:04 am
Schumix wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:19 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:19 pm


He mentioned power issues a while before he was overtaken.
I don't remember how many times we heard Hamilton claiming in the radio that he was facing troubles (tyre degradation or loss of power) and in the same time he slamed the lap record of the race!

Whatever is the reason, any race driver can be overtaken and defeated as it was the case for Hamilton.

The understanding of some technical people now is that Mercedes brought major upgrades that really work great but in the same time these upgrades apply too much load and stress on the tyres and the whole package. This is why they are in trouble in dirty air. When they are in clean air in front of the race, they achieve to manage their tyres whatever the type is.
Their opponents know that Mercedes is on the edge for the tyre management in dirty air and they will make the most of it by pushing them. It is so simple...
I wonder if the competition will update their strategies knowingly to disrupt their races using this weakness. Apparently Merc cannot overtake, so anytime there is a track advantage vs fresh tires, I bet other teams will choose track advantage.
If it's a major update (measured in lap time) it wouldn't be too difficult for more than some technical people to name elements of it and at least start a discussion. Until then: Canada - lack of updates (disregard Bottas), Austria - too much updates :wink: .

"Their opponents know that Mercedes is on the edge for the tyre management in dirty air"
This is the pinnacle of all the excuses. How is that different to any other car/driver? Hamilton had problems when Vettel was BEHIND him, unless he was also affected from the car following him :D. No dirty air is an excuse for radio soap opera instead of giving your best and "James" doing his 80s corporate self-flagellation. BTW no one asked Magnussen how his car behaved in dirty air or on a long stint on US (comparable to Ham's on SS).

I have a feeling that when these symptoms disappear it would only mean they got on top of updates/problems. Season is boring but at least threads like this provide some short-lived entertainment.

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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by siskue2005 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:13 pm

Schumix wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:19 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:19 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:37 pm
. Plus Hamilton has a habit of talking bull**** whenever he's overtaken or about to be overtaken so I don't believe whatever he said on the radio.
He mentioned power issues a while before he was overtaken.
I don't remember how many times we heard Hamilton claiming in the radio that he was facing troubles (tyre degradation or loss of power) and in the same time he slamed the lap record of the race!
The power loss issue 90% are derating issue from the engine....u have an assumption that any such problem is not fixable but in fact it is through calibration of harvesting and power delievry of MGUk and mguh etc. So there is no problem in setting fastest laps when this issue is solved......also as the race goes on fuel runs out and tyres come back to window etc. So there is nothing sinister about the power tyre issues in one part of the race and later setting a good lap.

LM10
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by LM10 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:28 pm

FrukostScones wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:58 am
Ferrari update for Silverstone? Always was a step back or in the wrong direction. Car is fine, they should not do a thing.
I think with all this aero and Turn 1 DRS RedBull will be able to fine tune their car for another VES victory despite the tyre compounds and tread thickness. Lets hope it will still be scorching hot with mad climax thunderstorms and ALO finishing on the podium.
Do you mean Ferrari shouldn't bring updates to Silverstone or for the remaining season? :)