Autonomous Cars

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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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FW17 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:26 am
If cars are autonomous, what is the point of owning one?
The same as now - to get from A to B. Just becasue it's autonomous doesn't mean it can't be expensive / blingy / in-your-face or whatever other thing people currently want their cars to be.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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FW17
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 am
FW17 wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:26 am
If cars are autonomous, what is the point of owning one?
The same as now - to get from A to B. Just becasue it's autonomous doesn't mean it can't be expensive / blingy / in-your-face or whatever other thing people currently want their cars to be.
Autonomous cars will be like rent a car, pay a subscription and usage

AJI
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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FrukostScones wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:17 am
...Also they want status (and a car, posh car is still the main status symbol all over the world), what is the point of and AMG autonomous that is going at the speed limit guided by big brother? ...
Status is a beautiful AMG or an Audi or a BMW that magically appears seconds before you require it, transports you in luxury to wherever you want to go in the most efficient, smoothest and safest way possible, drops you at your destination, parks itself in the cheapest location possible and then magically reappears when you need to get to your next location.

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Big Tea
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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I assume there will be a 'taxi' style option. A 'local bus' without a set route so you can be picked up from your door and delivered to your place of work, and return. Far easier to organise if a computer is driving and a smartphone is ordering.

Flexibility will become the buzzword. You will not necessarily travel with people who work with you, but people who live near and work near, and I assume synchronizing start finish times.

When I was working I had large(ish) cars for the travel, now am retired I have a Hyundai i10 (which I love) so maybe a movement to mixing public for work and small individual for personal?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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In my imaginary perfect world wich will never become true as we all know politicians #-o , autonomous cars will be the vast mayority, and people like myself who enjoy driving will have to pass a way more strict driving licence exam wich does include controlling the car in dangerous situations, but once passed there won´t be ridiculously slow speed limits wich even the police break as they´re way too slow, so those with a driving licence wich will be a minority won´t be forced to go as if we all are carrying 1000kg of nitroglycerine into the car


But there are A LOT of people who don´t like driving, and who I don´t like them driving as they´re VERY dangerous. I´m including my mom (72) and my best friend into this group. With people like them with an autonomous car, all of us will be safer when on the road, they will be VERY happy to keep the freedom a car provides but without driving wich they don´t like at all, and speed limits won´t need to be so low because people who is dangerous at the wheel won´t be at the wheel anymore

santos
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am
In my imaginary perfect world wich will never become true as we all know politicians #-o , autonomous cars will be the vast mayority, and people like myself who enjoy driving will have to pass a way more strict driving licence exam wich does include controlling the car in dangerous situations, but once passed there won´t be ridiculously slow speed limits wich even the police break as they´re way too slow, so those with a driving licence wich will be a minority won´t be forced to go as if we all are carrying 1000kg of nitroglycerine into the car


But there are A LOT of people who don´t like driving, and who I don´t like them driving as they´re VERY dangerous. I´m including my mom (72) and my best friend into this group. With people like them with an autonomous car, all of us will be safer when on the road, they will be VERY happy to keep the freedom a car provides but without driving wich they don´t like at all, and speed limits won´t need to be so low because people who is dangerous at the wheel won´t be at the wheel anymore
I don't think that in a near future there will be a real autonomous car. Yes, a Tesla can drive it self, but you are still the driver, and it's not 100% safe. You cannot take a nap, or working on a laptop while the car takes you to work.

AJI
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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santos wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:27 pm

...I don't think that in a near future....
@strad, as you've started this thread perhaps you can help define 'near future' for us?
IMHO, 14 years from today we will see mass AV implementation. 30 years from today a human will have to have special dispensation to be allowed to drive a 'classic car' on a public road.

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henry
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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I think economics will be a key driver.

Right now if you are a car manufacturer making a new car you make a huge investment in design and manufacturing. You then start making them and take a single payment for each one. At some point you take enough payments to start turning a profit.

If you instead make a level 4 autonomous car and operate it as an autonomous taxi you take smaller payments but you take them over and over for the life of the vehicle. You can make fewer, you’re not trying to persuade lots of individuals to buy so you can reduce variety, any colour you like as long as it’s black, you can upgrade them instead of persuading people to buy new cars.

This latter is an appealing model to the heads of companies such as GM or Ford. They will be transport providers rather than facilitators.

A consequence is that they will focus activity on areas of high transport demand, densely inhabited areas and the routes between them. If that’s not where you live then they’re going to be less interested in you. They will rely on the migration of the worlds populations to cities to keep feeding demand.

Providing more general use cars will decrease in volume and importance and they might well become more expensive.

Mobile phone service providers provide a template. They offer services in large conurbations to make money and elsewhere in the geography because they are forced to by regulation. I expect personal transportation services to be similar.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Big Tea
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am
In my imaginary perfect world wich will never become true as we all know politicians #-o , autonomous cars will be the vast mayority, and people like myself who enjoy driving will have to pass a way more strict driving licence exam wich does include controlling the car in dangerous situations, but once passed there won´t be ridiculously slow speed limits wich even the police break as they´re way too slow, so those with a driving licence wich will be a minority won´t be forced to go as if we all are carrying 1000kg of nitroglycerine into the car


But there are A LOT of people who don´t like driving, and who I don´t like them driving as they´re VERY dangerous. I´m including my mom (72) and my best friend into this group. With people like them with an autonomous car, all of us will be safer when on the road, they will be VERY happy to keep the freedom a car provides but without driving wich they don´t like at all, and speed limits won´t need to be so low because people who is dangerous at the wheel won´t be at the wheel anymore

Now please do not think this is a barb at you, but look around at other drivers.

How often do the 'fast driver' turn out to be boy/girl racers who other than knowing how to rev the nuts off a car and push the peddle further than anyone with brains claim they are 'fast drivers'.

People who can competently drive quickly are often not those who DO drive fast.
And i have deliberately divided drive quickly from drive fast.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:28 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am
In my imaginary perfect world wich will never become true as we all know politicians #-o , autonomous cars will be the vast mayority, and people like myself who enjoy driving will have to pass a way more strict driving licence exam wich does include controlling the car in dangerous situations, but once passed there won´t be ridiculously slow speed limits wich even the police break as they´re way too slow, so those with a driving licence wich will be a minority won´t be forced to go as if we all are carrying 1000kg of nitroglycerine into the car


But there are A LOT of people who don´t like driving, and who I don´t like them driving as they´re VERY dangerous. I´m including my mom (72) and my best friend into this group. With people like them with an autonomous car, all of us will be safer when on the road, they will be VERY happy to keep the freedom a car provides but without driving wich they don´t like at all, and speed limits won´t need to be so low because people who is dangerous at the wheel won´t be at the wheel anymore

Now please do not think this is a barb at you, but look around at other drivers.

How often do the 'fast driver' turn out to be boy/girl racers who other than knowing how to rev the nuts off a car and push the peddle further than anyone with brains claim they are 'fast drivers'.

People who can competently drive quickly are often not those who DO drive fast.
And i have deliberately divided drive quickly from drive fast.
Agree, if you notice I´ve never said a word about fast or slow drivers, but about dangerous ones. Actually I agree many fast drivers are the most dangerous, but there are also slow ones who are dangerous. My mother for example and she barely reach the speed limits

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Andres125sx
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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santos wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:27 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am
In my imaginary perfect world wich will never become true as we all know politicians #-o , autonomous cars will be the vast mayority, and people like myself who enjoy driving will have to pass a way more strict driving licence exam wich does include controlling the car in dangerous situations, but once passed there won´t be ridiculously slow speed limits wich even the police break as they´re way too slow, so those with a driving licence wich will be a minority won´t be forced to go as if we all are carrying 1000kg of nitroglycerine into the car


But there are A LOT of people who don´t like driving, and who I don´t like them driving as they´re VERY dangerous. I´m including my mom (72) and my best friend into this group. With people like them with an autonomous car, all of us will be safer when on the road, they will be VERY happy to keep the freedom a car provides but without driving wich they don´t like at all, and speed limits won´t need to be so low because people who is dangerous at the wheel won´t be at the wheel anymore
I don't think that in a near future there will be a real autonomous car. Yes, a Tesla can drive it self, but you are still the driver, and it's not 100% safe. You cannot take a nap, or working on a laptop while the car takes you to work.
Sorry, but there are autonomous vehicles today.

Obviously first AV in history still need some mileage in real live before claiming you can take a nap while the car drives for itself, that´s the reason they warn driver must keep his hands on the wheel constantly. That, current laws wich are not prepared for AVs yet, and avoiding any claim when an accident does occur :wink:

But in practice it is a car with autonomous driving option wich do it all for itself, wich is the definition of an autonomous car

Let them use their customers as beta testers for some years to solve any bug all new technology suffer, and I´m sure in 5 years, if laws do allow it, they will say you can take a nap and be safer than if driving for yourself. And it will be true!

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strad
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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henry;
Near future? I'd call that 10 years and I don't see AVs making any massive inroads in 10 years. Strides? Yes, and maybe more so in Europe or England but less in the U.S..
As has been pointed out, charge times and range reliability rightly or wrongly play a big part along with cost.
IF you could recharge on a 1200 mile trip as quickly as you can fill up your tank that would eliminate much of the hesitation. But here in the United States millions of people a day drive from say Seattle to Phoenix straight through. From L.A. to New Orleans with a couple of driver changes. That sort of thing.
I do believe those of you younger than me will see the time, but not until they address those problems. Certainly not in my short lifetime left.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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JonoNic
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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Remember this movie?
Last edited by JonoNic on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Always find the gap then use it.

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Big Tea
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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strad wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:01 pm
henry;
Near future? I'd call that 10 years and I don't see AVs making any massive inroads in 10 years. Strides? Yes, and maybe more so in Europe or England but less in the U.S..
As has been pointed out, charge times and range reliability rightly or wrongly play a big part along with cost.
IF you could recharge on a 1200 mile trip as quickly as you can fill up your tank that would eliminate much of the hesitation. But here in the United States millions of people a day drive from say Seattle to Phoenix straight through. From L.A. to New Orleans with a couple of driver changes. That sort of thing.
I do believe those of you younger than me will see the time, but not until they address those problems. Certainly not in my short lifetime left.
We are mixing metaphors so to speak now. The two are completely different horses, which just happen to be passing the post at the same time.

EV, yes. but the scenarios you give above are those ideal for autonomous cars.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

roon
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Re: Autonomous Cars

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strad wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:01 pm
But here in the United States millions of people a day drive from say Seattle to Phoenix straight through. From L.A. to New Orleans with a couple of driver changes. That sort of thing.
I doubt there are millions of people embarking on 1500mi road trips daily. This would require more than one out of every 200 drivers in the US to be doing so.