Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gshevlin
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by gshevlin » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:17 pm

One general comment i would make about "qualifying modes" is that, with the dramatically increased life requirements for the entire power unit component collection this season, the use of higher-power modes is likely to be much more restricted across all power unit suppliers this season. The life reduction of using the more aggressive modes is not sustainable if you really want to obey the power unit component usage rules. So, if Honda's "qualifying mode" is merely a wee bit more powerful than race mode, there may be a good reason for that. Ditto Renault.

anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by anthonyfa18 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:42 pm

Image


british gp shot of the honda pu

Zynerji
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Zynerji » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:01 am

anthonyfa18 wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:42 pm
https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... 3-rear.jpg


british gp shot of the honda pu
Where? Behind all of the things that are in the way? :lol:

anthonyfa18
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by anthonyfa18 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:29 pm

Can it be a upgrade unit, or is it the same spec as Canada ????

Image

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hart ... h-1057550/

Walkman
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Walkman » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:52 pm

Same spec.

atanatizante
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by atanatizante » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:09 pm

I don`t know if that`s an old topic or the right thread in order to get some advised answer regarding what Nico Rosberg said about Ferrari have found in their ERS area but I`ll give it a go ...

This is the first part https://streamable.com/hg6gd

And here he elaborates further on: https://streamable.com/vh89e

From my understanding he speaks something about MGU-H, right? We knew that is allowed to have maximum 120kw/160hp for only 33 sec. and that`s 4MJ from which the only 2MJ could be provided from MGU-K. Nowhere said that they aren`t allowed to deploy 159HP for the rest of the time, isn`t it? Just to have the appropriate MGU-H in order to let them have that amount of power … so that`s it? Do they have a better “H”?
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:32 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:09 pm
I don`t know if that`s an old topic or the right thread in order to get some advised answer regarding what Nico Rosberg said about Ferrari have found in their ERS area but I`ll give it a go ...

This is the first part https://streamable.com/hg6gd

And here he elaborates further on: https://streamable.com/vh89e

From my understanding he speaks something about MGU-H, right? We knew that is allowed to have maximum 120kw/160hp for only 33 sec. and that`s 4MJ from which the only 2MJ could be provided from MGU-K. Nowhere said that they aren`t allowed to deploy 159HP for the rest of the time, isn`t it? Just to have the appropriate MGU-H in order to let them have that amount of power … so that`s it? Do they have a better “H”?
The H is recovering energy from the turbine, and the turbine is powered by the exhaust gases that come out of the engine. However the turbine can also be powered by the MGU-K directly, which means you can use crankshaft power to power the MGU-H indirectly. This is how you get 2MJ/lap from the K to the ES and whatever excess comes from the H, and it works in the other direction as well. You can send 4MJ from the battery to the MGU-K directly, but you can send unlimited energy from the battery, or some other energy source to the MGU-K indirectly, either through engine ancillaries, the engine itself, or the MGU-H.
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Thunder
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by Thunder » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:10 am

Ok last try. There is a General Honda F1 Topic for everything non technical: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

Use that or i'll have to lock this Thread for some Time.
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wuzak
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:26 am

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:09 pm
I don`t know if that`s an old topic or the right thread in order to get some advised answer regarding what Nico Rosberg said about Ferrari have found in their ERS area but I`ll give it a go ...

This is the first part https://streamable.com/hg6gd

And here he elaborates further on: https://streamable.com/vh89e

From my understanding he speaks something about MGU-H, right? We knew that is allowed to have maximum 120kw/160hp for only 33 sec. and that`s 4MJ from which the only 2MJ could be provided from MGU-K. Nowhere said that they aren`t allowed to deploy 159HP for the rest of the time, isn`t it? Just to have the appropriate MGU-H in order to let them have that amount of power … so that`s it? Do they have a better “H”?
If they have sufficient energy recovery, they can run 120kW all the time.

The 33s at 160hp comes from the maximum energy transfer from the ES to the MGUK of 4MJ (= 4,000kJ). That is,
4,000kJ/120kW = 33.33s.

If the power was reduced slightly to 159hp from 160hp, the time available wouldn't change much.

If you chose only to use half the power, you would get twice the time. So
4,000kJ/60kW = 66.67s.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by godlameroso » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm

Looks like the current power units are going to stay beyond 2021, maybe some standardized parts. Particularly interesting that Honda wants to keep the MGU-H all of a sudden. That to me is very telling in a general sense.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by loner » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:23 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Looks like the current power units are going to stay beyond 2021, maybe some standardized parts. Particularly interesting that Honda wants to keep the MGU-H all of a sudden. That to me is very telling in a general sense.
good news since i do want current regulations to continue and get explored more its a rabbit hole with lots of undiscovered energy yet.
"So if somebody would commit to come into F1 in the way that all four of us [Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Honda] have committed ourselves, go through the lows and highs, the expenses and investment that it needs, then let's discuss engine regulations.

"But if nobody's inside, it's an academic discussion."

Christian Horner also indicated that the lack of new entrants had become an issue. In addition Honda is keen to keep the MGU-H, and Red Bull is backing that position.
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by etusch » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:05 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Looks like the current power units are going to stay beyond 2021, maybe some standardized parts. Particularly interesting that Honda wants to keep the MGU-H all of a sudden. That to me is very telling in a general sense.
Lesser tech is not acceptable for F1 anymore I think. If they go back, they will be way behind in tech from other series.
That is good news for me.

roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by roon » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:27 pm

loner wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:23 pm
good news since i do want current regulations to continue and get explored more its a rabbit hole with lots of undiscovered energy yet.
Actually, they may be hitting a wall with the hybrid tech. Some teams may already be deploying max K output throughout laps. Which means further power gains will be made only via the ICE. The choice would be to drop the H or rewrite the electrical drivetrain allowances.

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Looks like the current power units are going to stay beyond 2021, maybe some standardized parts. Particularly interesting that Honda wants to keep the MGU-H all of a sudden. That to me is very telling in a general sense.
They want to develop compounding and hybrid tech, and not go down the combustion rabbit hole any further.

etusch wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:05 pm
Lesser tech is not acceptable for F1 anymore I think. If they go back, they will be way behind in tech from other series.
They can keep developing combustion without an MGU-H. Which will enable lighter engines accomplishing the same task. Kinetic reclamation can remain and this is part of the 2021 formula proposal. Completing the same task with less weight, cost, and complexity, should also be considered 'tech.'

bosyber
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by bosyber » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:44 pm

They could always allow either also generating 'K' from the front wheels, and/or lift that Es limit ; in general, allowing more use of regeneration from whatever source.

Remove the H part and you increase fuel use a lot.

roon
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Re: Honda Power Unit

Post by roon » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:06 pm

bosyber wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:44 pm
Remove the H part and you increase fuel use a lot.
Consider that they burn fuel to charge the ES via the H & K. These MGUs incentivize part-throttle & off-throttle fuel burning within the existing ruleset. I wager the current ICE fuel consumption can be maintained with an unassisted TC. Fuel use may actually decrease with removal of the H because development focus will shift back to combustion development, away from series-hybrid development. Braking-only K regen would also help.