2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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techman
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:25 am

one thing about the TR is their race strategy. they always loose position for not pitting early. there were few times when gas could have been in points but due to late pits. they lost position. they need to try new strategies and not alwasy stick to this one stop bs. gas with soft tyres in siverstone at the end had the best race pace out of the top 3.

bigpat
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by bigpat » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:42 am

I'm sure they have good reasons to follow their strategy. Besides all the simulation stuff, they have clever people working there, that actually have the data from the car, in order to make the decisions.

If Gasly had top 3 pace, if must be compared in comparison to the tyre condition of others, and whether the engine mode was wound right up. But ultimately, on soft tyres, and low fuel, they are still down the grid in qualifying, which is still the best gauge of relative performance in my opinion...

Sayeman
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Sayeman » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 am

Honda PU seems to be decent in start-stop circuits, like they looked in Canada. But in places where you have to be on throttle 80% of the time, the PU struggles. It's not only Honda, Renault also loosing around 1 sec on the straight. Even Mercedes is struggling against Ferrari. Considering Renault been developing the PU far longer than Honda, Honda can be pleased with the progress. It would have been even faster if Mclaren didn't restrict them from supplying to other teams in the last 3 years.

According to Rosberg - ""[Ferrari] managing to put more pressure into the engine via the turbo... because of all that extra pressure, they're manage to re-charge more of the battery...so they have like free battery charge... so they're able to deploy it every lap all the way round".

I hope Honda takes notice and does something similar.

Talking about Gasly's comments, I think criticising him isn't fair. We know the PU is still not there, When you are stuck behind slower cars for 20+ laps, not been able to make a pass even with DRS, it gets very frustrating. And He isn't lying about the deficit, not claiming they have a grid beating chassis either. So, lets hope this spurs on the Honda development.
Never Give up.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:03 am

Sayeman wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 am
Honda PU seems to be decent in start-stop circuits, like they looked in Canada. But in places where you have to be on throttle 80% of the time, the PU struggles. It's not only Honda, Renault also loosing around 1 sec on the straight. Even Mercedes is struggling against Ferrari. Considering Renault been developing the PU far longer than Honda, Honda can be pleased with the progress. It would have been even faster if Mclaren didn't restrict them from supplying to other teams in the last 3 years.

According to Rosberg - ""[Ferrari] managing to put more pressure into the engine via the turbo... because of all that extra pressure, they're manage to re-charge more of the battery...so they have like free battery charge... so they're able to deploy it every lap all the way round".

I hope Honda takes notice and does something similar.

Talking about Gasly's comments, I think criticising him isn't fair. We know the PU is still not there, When you are stuck behind slower cars for 20+ laps, not been able to make a pass even with DRS, it gets very frustrating. And He isn't lying about the deficit, not claiming they have a grid beating chassis either. So, lets hope this spurs on the Honda development.
The issue I have with Gasly's comments is describing the car as "mega" and saying all the performance deficit is from the engine. I know it still has a a long way to go, the engine, but that car is not mega. This is out of the Red Bull (and Mclaren) playbook, praise the car, blame the engine. Little sparks have been known to start great fires.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

makecry
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by makecry » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:27 am

Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:03 am
Sayeman wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 am
Honda PU seems to be decent in start-stop circuits, like they looked in Canada. But in places where you have to be on throttle 80% of the time, the PU struggles. It's not only Honda, Renault also loosing around 1 sec on the straight. Even Mercedes is struggling against Ferrari. Considering Renault been developing the PU far longer than Honda, Honda can be pleased with the progress. It would have been even faster if Mclaren didn't restrict them from supplying to other teams in the last 3 years.

According to Rosberg - ""[Ferrari] managing to put more pressure into the engine via the turbo... because of all that extra pressure, they're manage to re-charge more of the battery...so they have like free battery charge... so they're able to deploy it every lap all the way round".

I hope Honda takes notice and does something similar.

Talking about Gasly's comments, I think criticising him isn't fair. We know the PU is still not there, When you are stuck behind slower cars for 20+ laps, not been able to make a pass even with DRS, it gets very frustrating. And He isn't lying about the deficit, not claiming they have a grid beating chassis either. So, lets hope this spurs on the Honda development.
The issue I have with Gasly's comments is describing the car as "mega" and saying all the performance deficit is from the engine. I know it still has a a long way to go, the engine, but that car is not mega. This is out of the Red Bull (and Mclaren) playbook, praise the car, blame the engine. Little sparks have been known to start great fires.

I agree. Gasly shouldn't have said that. He literally threw Honda under the bus with that comment. No the car is not mega. They have been struggling with updates and Honda has actually delivered a step forward this year and throwing them under the bus would basically have made the engineers at Honda feel a bit shitty .
Sayeman wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:51 am

Talking about Gasly's comments, I think criticising him isn't fair. We know the PU is still not there, When you are stuck behind slower cars for 20+ laps, not been able to make a pass even with DRS, it gets very frustrating. And He isn't lying about the deficit, not claiming they have a grid beating chassis either. So, lets hope this spurs on the Honda development.

I think it is VERY fair because not doing that would be hypocritical seeing that everyone here was shitting on Alonso for saying the exact same thing Gasly said. Gasly put all blame on Honda and that's wrong, the car is not there and literally not mega.

Wouter
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Wouter » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:53 am

Gasly was a little frustrated, I think. In one interview the car was MEGA and in another interview he said that the car had had updates that did not work and the car was bad to drive. Then he blamed the car and not the engine.
"Motorsport-Total - Die Erwartungen waren große, der Unterschied sichtbar - aber der Umschwung blieb aus. Toro Rosso hat seit dem Österreich-Grand-Prix tief in die Update-Kiste gegriffen. Die Auswirkungen sind gleich null. Dementsprechend groß ist der Frust bei Piere Gasly und Brendon Hartley.
"Die anderen warten nicht auf uns", schlägt Gasly Alarm. "Jeder verbessert sich aber wir tappen auf der Stelle. Die ganzen Updates, die uns hätten helfen sollen, haben uns keinen Fortschritt gebracht."

Bill
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Bill » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:11 am

Which car was gasly stuck for 20+ laps , the 1st he was behind Alonso & who was pulling away

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 am

Wouter wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:53 am
Gasly was a little frustrated, I think. In one interview the car was MEGA and in another interview he said that the car had had updates that did not work and the car was bad to drive. Then he blamed the car and not the engine.
"Motorsport-Total - Die Erwartungen waren große, der Unterschied sichtbar - aber der Umschwung blieb aus. Toro Rosso hat seit dem Österreich-Grand-Prix tief in die Update-Kiste gegriffen. Die Auswirkungen sind gleich null. Dementsprechend groß ist der Frust bei Piere Gasly und Brendon Hartley.
"Die anderen warten nicht auf uns", schlägt Gasly Alarm. "Jeder verbessert sich aber wir tappen auf der Stelle. Die ganzen Updates, die uns hätten helfen sollen, haben uns keinen Fortschritt gebracht."
Well, I'm playing devil's advocate here, so bear with me. If we see how it started, he complained about the car and updates not working and even used the word confused at one point. That was after free practice, (FP1 I believe) but after qualifying, it's all from the engine. Like I said playing devil's advocate, so only speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was instructed by Red Bull bosses/Toro Rosso to refrain from critisizing the car. If there are any complaints he should link it to the engine. Maybe he went a little overboard with that. It's one thing to say we're still behind or still down on power, than to say, the car is mega or it's all from the engine. Like I said, Red Bull playbook.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

Revs84
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Revs84 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:48 am

The reason why Gasly changed his tune about the car probably comes from the fact that between FP2 and quali/race, the car was running more downforce. This allowed him to tackle corners better, which triggered the 'Mega' comment, but which unfortunately, sacrificed top speed.

This was mainly the outcome of lack of running in FP3, which didn't allow them to test the package after reverting back to the 'old' front wing and overall running a bit more downforce than they should have on this circuit.

While we all know that Honda has less power to it's main competitors, we also know that adding downforce will have this effect, regardless of the amount of power that you have, so it's unfortunate that Gasly went public with such comments. This is reminiscent of the last 3 years, which led to the McLaren drivers criticising Honda simply because the car was handling well.

The power from Honda's PU is what it is at the moment, and Toro Rosso are well aware of this. Their focus should now be to work hard together on the new aero package work to extract the car's potential and find a good balance.

Gasly should on his side understand, that especially now, with the Red Bull deal, criticizing in public won't get him and the team anywhere quicker. Instead, he should focus on giving them the feedback they require to continue improving their package.

The old adage 'Praise in public, criticize in private' in this case will go a very long way.
Last edited by Revs84 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

techman
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:50 am

i guess a in few more months. before this blame game stops. redbulll honda will show the benchmark for toro rosso to follow

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:08 pm

A much more reasonable take from James Key

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... m-1058620/
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

techman
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:25 am

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:23 pm

another problem is there is no experience driver. we dont really know the potential of the car because both are rookie. next year is a more accurate measurement because gasly will get better. shame they got rid of kyatt.

Revs84
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Revs84 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:29 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:08 pm
A much more reasonable take from James Key

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro ... m-1058620/
Or the full interview here ;)

http://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/th ... s-key.html

techman
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by techman » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:09 pm

i have a good feeling about german gp. hope they don t put the new wing. keep the old fron wing with aero update to the rear.

Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Big Tea » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:11 pm

techman wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:23 pm
another problem is there is no experience driver. we dont really know the potential of the car because both are rookie. next year is a more accurate measurement because gasly will get better. shame they got rid of kyatt.
Not just an experienced driver, not a driver close to Gasly, or even a driver consistently half a second behind Gasley.
A reliable second driver lets you know when the primary driver is not on top form. As it is now in STR, there is no form book for Hartley, so no set point for Gasly.

It could just be him having a bad day as far as we know, there is no measure.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions