Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
bazanaius
bazanaius
0
Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: Rules - Old, New and Musings

Post

seems <b> doesnt work.

also, I was thinking that I might plot out all the planes within which the tech regs state bodywork must lie - effectively forming a box in which the car can sit - I'd imagine it looks quite a lot like a 2008 car :-) I might then move on to the 2009 regs and repeat, see the differences.

Again, this is something that would be interesting to do with some older regs.

cheers,

Baz

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: Rules - Old, New and Musings

Post

Try BBcode instead of HTML (bold is and [ /b] -- minus the spaces :) )

I saw them too...they must be legal if they are using them but you know about F1 engineers -- they love loopholes and obscure regulations :D
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

bazanaius
bazanaius
0
Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Hey guys, going off in a slightly different direction, as in my other thread on this topic. Does anyone have any links or copies of past FIA technical regs for F1? I'd like to get hold of as many all the way back to 1958 if I can, to see how the rules developed, and how they were linked to engineering developments of the time.

Baz

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

I concur with bazanaius -- I am trying to find the regulations for the entire '90s so I can see what measures the FIA really took to slow the cars down.

Any would be much appreciated 8)
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

I would suggest to write to the FIA and claim a research project. They might give you the lot. The only other way might be getting them from a team which requires connections I guess. I'm not even sure that the regs were published before the late 90ties because nobody bothered with the internet and certainly not the FIA. If you fax to Max Mosley he will probably give you at least an answer and might tell one of his buerocrates to make an effort. He is quite meticulous in terms of answering letters. His fax number is on the FIA home page. If you get the stuff it would be great to put it on a server, perhaps here at F1technical or at another public URL which can be linked.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bazanaius
bazanaius
0
Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

I've contacted a mate who works for one of the teams. unfortunately I don't have a printer at the moment so can't send a letter or a fax to FIA - can anyone take this on for me? It'll be at least the weekend until I can get to a fax machine.

B

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Getting back on topic -- did anything come out of the WMSC meeting at the end of June? Do we have finalised regulations yet?
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Sorry for the double-post but this is quite a story:

Translated from German to English
Honda was the first team in test KERS, Honda also tested as a first team 2009er Aero package - already in Hockenheim!
With the new chief engineer Ross Brawn, the entwicklungstechnischen space at Honda runs a sudden end: former Ferrari chief strategist has at Silverstone said that soon the whole development capacity for the 2009 season, and is a foretaste of which we have already received .

Honda was the first Formula 1 racing team with an engine KERS in trial operation, and now, the Japanese established in England the next Joker zücken: in the race transporter, one of the tests ausgerückt Hockenheim, is a completely after 2009er aerodynamics regulations equipped cars stuck .

The car will be on an English airfield tested and the test for use as has been declared fit. This laboratory vehicle based on the RA108 - according to regulations without all the extra wing - has proved contrary to the forecast of the FIA, that the new aerodynamic downforce to half the cost, was just a loss of 25 percent noted!
Original: http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/artikel_4975.html

Translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... l=en&tl=en


Only 25% reduction?! :shock: :o
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

bazanaius
bazanaius
0
Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

I guess this is a 2008 car with 2009 downforce levels? I doubt that honda already has a running 2009 car? Or does it? If so wow, that is early!

Conceptual
Conceptual
0
Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Hey,

25% is still ALOT to lose in one season. If Honda are to the proposed regs, and have found out that the 2009 downforce levels are still 75% of 2008 levels, I suggest seeing it test, and letting it go for this coming season. Maybe reduce another 25% for 2010, and another 25% for 2011.

I, for one, want to see how the Honda performs. If it is still at 75% DF, with slicks, and KERS, I think that it would be a pretty bad-ass car to be honest. ESPECIALLY since it has just as much ICE HP going to the wheels, and now comes with a 100HO boost button.

Can Honda test the 2009 car simultaneously this year, and have it count towards their 2009 testing miles, or will it eat into the 2008 mileage cap?

Chris

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

They'd better not regain too much or the slicks will go away...and that would be bad for many reasons.
That next year cars end up faster would not surprise me at all.

Well we have a margin after all we're 4 seconds off the 2004 levels.

Regulations are still not finished i've been told, some bodywork question are still in discussions.

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Conceptual wrote:Hey,

25% is still ALOT to lose in one season. If Honda are to the proposed regs, and have found out that the 2009 downforce levels are still 75% of 2008 levels, I suggest seeing it test, and letting it go for this coming season. Maybe reduce another 25% for 2010, and another 25% for 2011.

I, for one, want to see how the Honda performs. If it is still at 75% DF, with slicks, and KERS, I think that it would be a pretty bad-ass car to be honest. ESPECIALLY since it has just as much ICE HP going to the wheels, and now comes with a 100HO boost button.

Can Honda test the 2009 car simultaneously this year, and have it count towards their 2009 testing miles, or will it eat into the 2008 mileage cap?

Chris
25% isn't all that much -- that's less than the difference between a Monza-spec car and a Monaco-spec car. Remember for 2005 they wanted to reduce downforce by 35% (and they achieved that for the first race, at least).
Ogami musashi wrote:They'd better not regain too much or the slicks will go away...and that would be bad for many reasons.
That next year cars end up faster would not surprise me at all.

Well we have a margin after all we're 4 seconds off the 2004 levels.

Regulations are still not finished i've been told, some bodywork question are still in discussions.
Yes, I agree it is quite bad if see laptimes that are much faster than today. However, the main goal of these regulations was to facilitate overtaking NOT to slow the cars down -- they just would like to see 5 seconds a lap slower. Now it's obvious we're not going to see that.

Also, we're not 4 seconds off 2004 times --

2004 French Grand Prix top-10 fastest laps:

1:15.377
1:15.551
1:15.791
1:15.956
1:15.971
1:16.035
1:16.070
1:16.140
1:16.248
1:16.303

2008 French Grand Prix top-10 fastest laps:

1:16.630
1:16.729
1:17.134
1:17.172
1:17.453
1:17.507
1:17.567
1:17.641
1:17.716
1:17.758

It's only just over 1 second.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

This is a very serious issue as Ogami Musashi wrote. The German article claims clearly that the car will be total to 2009 rules bodywork and was tested in strait line testing to miss the expectations of downforce reduction by half the target. I agree that the FIA will most likely not launch the slicks unless further improvements are shown. They have been duped too often by promises to play that game. In the end they could go back to just controlling the dowenforce by sensors as stipulated in the first rules proposal. That would probably be the most simple solution.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

Fastest lap times in race mean nothing as they are done in different conditions.

If you take qualifying times, you see 1:13.698 in 2004 with a full stint fuel load and 1:15.024 in 2008 in Q2 that is light

that's why i say 4 seconds. If 2004 cars did qualify on light fuel they would just be in that range as on some tracks with their fuel loads they're already 2 seconds ahead.


The FIA wanted to slow down the cars for safety yes.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: [Central topic] Future Technical Regulations

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:This is a very serious issue as Ogami Musashi wrote. The German article claims clearly that the car will be total to 2009 rules bodywork and was tested in strait line testing to miss the expectations of downforce reduction by half the target. I agree that the FIA will most likely not launch the slicks unless further improvements are shown. They have been duped too often by promises to play that game. In the end they could go back to just controlling the dowenforce by sensors as stipulated in the first rules proposal. That would probably be the most simple solution.

I think this is too late for slicks to be dropped, the teams already started designing their cars around slicks.
i was more thinking for 2010.
for 2011 the radical overhaul will surely drop more downforce.

Let's be careful with the article, it is possible but let's wait.