2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

[zeph]

Why is that these sort of people are unable to condense their thoughts into one post.

Probably because it’s more about feelings than thoughts for him?

Adequately expressing feelings is poet territory.

[NathanOlder]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

[Big Tea]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

But that leaves him free to go to another team and take points off Red Bull. Maybe the STR seat until year end would be good

[Zynerji]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

But that leaves him free to go to another team and take points off Red Bull. Maybe the STR seat until year end would be good

That's a face slap, but if going with Gasley in 2019, I'd definitely swap them for Spa...

[djos]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

Considering Dan is his most consistent points scorer, he'd be shooting the team in both feet from a points and fom payments pov.

[Zynerji]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

Considering Dan is his most consistent points scorer, he'd be shooting the team in both feet from a points and fom payments pov.

Actually, if 3rd is secured, more points cost the team more...

[Laserguru]

i'm hoping for gasly, purely to see how max reacts when he's no longer the young exciting new driver but instead the experienced old hand in a team who has to worry about being shown up by the new guy, what ever happened i suspect how that played out could define max's career.

Except that Pierre is 1 year and 7 month older. Max will both be the youngest and the most experienced driver. So how would that dfine Max’s carreer?

[Laserguru]

i'm hoping for gasly, purely to see how max reacts when he's no longer the young exciting new driver but instead the experienced old hand in a team who has to worry about being shown up by the new guy, what ever happened i suspect how that played out could define max's career.

Except that Pierre is 1 year and 7 month older. Max will both be the youngest and the most experienced driver. So how would that define Max’s carreer?

Respect to Gasly if he turns out to be better than Sainz and Ricciardo. So far he is only beating Hartley, which is what I would expect him to do. Next year will be interesting, he will have to prove he can sustain and improve further, like Ocon has to this year.

[rayden]

drivers change teams, it is normal behavior, and most of the time all parties know before the season is over.

Professional courtesy goes both ways, if Red Bull treated their driver like that, they would find it very hard to attract drivers outside of their academy in the future.

[AngusF1]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

Further, I'd be surprised if Ricciardo had a contract which stated that Red Bull good drop him mid-season just for signing with another team at the end of his contract. Notice how polite and restrained he's been in his comments. Quite likely he can be sacked for disparaging the team, non-performance or a whole other raft of reasons, but not just for changing teams.

[Phil]

I'm fairly confident that Ricciardo would have resigned for an extension of his RedBull contract, if the management had granted him a higher salary. From all indications, there were three factors that made Dan go to Renault;

1.) Salary
2.) RedBull supposedly wanted 2 years, Dan possibly one and/or have an exit clause
3.) Mercedes and Ferrari's unavailability/disinterest

At no point do I believe that Max is being treated as the number 1 driver there. There may be favouritism to some extent, and certainly Max might be perceived as the quicker of both drivers, but to suggest that the team would outrightly favour one over the other contractually is absurd. As a team trying to win a championship or trying to get the best drivers, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

I am also willing to bet that Max has zero influence over who gets that 2nd seat. The Verstappen camp can throw a tantrum in the media all they want (and they are doing just that in regards to the possibility of Sainz joining), but the RedBull management (Helmut Marko) are possibly the most ruthless towards their own drivers. And what would Verstappen have as leverage anyway? All the top seats are unavailable and his butt is nailed to RedBull for the foreseeable future (at a very nice salary mind you).

What prompted Ricciardo to leave ultimately is the salary. He mentioned at various interviews that he doesn't want to be sold 'under his worth' and my hunch is that he was looking at a pay increase that puts him closer to Max's, also for the perceived equality inside the team, not last because he is also leading the points score (with a tad better consistency and luck) and speed wise he is not that far behind. What made his negotiation position rather weak however, is the fact that Mercedes signed both Hamilton and Bottas and the disinterest by Ferrari. Where could he go?

Well, he went to the only other team that is a works-team and was looking for a 2nd driver: Renault.

In the end, I think it's a fantastic opportunity for Ricciardo and Hulkenberg. If Hulkenberg does well against Dan, it will only increase his underrated image. Dan can be his own man, start fresh at a new team and be free of the RedBull family. If he does well there, his stock may rise to the point he may be interesting for Mercedes or Ferrari, or perhaps even back at RedBull after 2020.

As for that second RedBull seat; it's a tricky situation. Sainz is perhaps the best candidate for that 2nd seat - he already proved at TR while driving alongside Max that he is close enough. He is also a very consistent performer, a mature driver and is proving that nicely at Renault as well. Technically, he is also contractually bound to RedBull at least until September. Beyond that, I suspect RedBull have an option on Sainz for the next year. The matter of fact is, all young drivers within the RedBull family represent huge investments. It would be the same with Sainz too; either he pays back RedBull or he is contractually bound to them until that depth is repaid or his options expire. This is of course bad for Sainz - even Renault who probably wanted to keep him, would have had to wait until September to see what RB does in regards to Sainz. The big question though is if RB's option is for a seat at the big team or let him go. I have my doubts they could (and will) put him into the Torro Rosso.

This will either put Sainz in that second seat. If not, then I'd assume Sainz will be off to McLaren, possibly the best of the rest. Either way, I think it's either gonna be Sainz or Gasly in that 2nd seat at RedBull. If it's Sainz, Gasly will get another 1 or 2 years at TR, possibly alongside Hartley or someone new.

[Webber2011]

I'm fairly confident that Ricciardo would have resigned for an extension of his RedBull contract, if the management had granted him a higher salary. From all indications, there were three factors that made Dan go to Renault;

1.) Salary
2.) RedBull supposedly wanted 2 years, Dan possibly one and/or have an exit clause
3.) Mercedes and Ferrari's unavailability/disinterest

At no point do I believe that Max is being treated as the number 1 driver there. There may be favouritism to some extent, and certainly Max might be perceived as the quicker of both drivers, but to suggest that the team would outrightly favour one over the other contractually is absurd. As a team trying to win a championship or trying to get the best drivers, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

I am also willing to bet that Max has zero influence over who gets that 2nd seat. The Verstappen camp can throw a tantrum in the media all they want (and they are doing just that in regards to the possibility of Sainz joining), but the RedBull management (Helmut Marko) are possibly the most ruthless towards their own drivers. And what would Verstappen have as leverage anyway? All the top seats are unavailable and his butt is nailed to RedBull for the foreseeable future (at a very nice salary mind you).

What prompted Ricciardo to leave ultimately is the salary. He mentioned at various interviews that he doesn't want to be sold 'under his worth' and my hunch is that he was looking at a pay increase that puts him closer to Max's, also for the perceived equality inside the team, not last because he is also leading the points score (with a tad better consistency and luck) and speed wise he is not that far behind. What made his negotiation position rather weak however, is the fact that Mercedes signed both Hamilton and Bottas and the disinterest by Ferrari. Where could he go?

Well, he went to the only other team that is a works-team and was looking for a 2nd driver: Renault.

In the end, I think it's a fantastic opportunity for Ricciardo and Hulkenberg. If Hulkenberg does well against Dan, it will only increase his underrated image. Dan can be his own man, start fresh at a new team and be free of the RedBull family. If he does well there, his stock may rise to the point he may be interesting for Mercedes or Ferrari, or perhaps even back at RedBull after 2020.

As for that second RedBull seat; it's a tricky situation. Sainz is perhaps the best candidate for that 2nd seat - he already proved at TR while driving alongside Max that he is close enough. He is also a very consistent performer, a mature driver and is proving that nicely at Renault as well. Technically, he is also contractually bound to RedBull at least until September. Beyond that, I suspect RedBull have an option on Sainz for the next year. The matter of fact is, all young drivers within the RedBull family represent huge investments. It would be the same with Sainz too; either he pays back RedBull or he is contractually bound to them until that depth is repaid or his options expire. This is of course bad for Sainz - even Renault who probably wanted to keep him, would have had to wait until September to see what RB does in regards to Sainz. The big question though is if RB's option is for a seat at the big team or let him go. I have my doubts they could (and will) put him into the Torro Rosso.

This will either put Sainz in that second seat. If not, then I'd assume Sainz will be off to McLaren, possibly the best of the rest. Either way, I think it's either gonna be Sainz or Gasly in that 2nd seat at RedBull. If it's Sainz, Gasly will get another 1 or 2 years at TR, possibly alongside Hartley or someone new.

It's now being reported on Autosport that Red Bull were indeed offering Dan the same Salary as Max.

[Zynerji]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

Further, I'd be surprised if Ricciardo had a contract which stated that Red Bull good drop him mid-season just for signing with another team at the end of his contract. Notice how polite and restrained he's been in his comments. Quite likely he can be sacked for disparaging the team, non-performance or a whole other raft of reasons, but not just for changing teams.

As all Redbull drivers, he serves at the whim of Marko. He can be swapped with a STR driver at any time.

[Sevach]

As mentioned above, if I were Horner id drop a driver who just told me he was leaving. They are a safe 3rd in the WCC and cant move up or down. So why not try new drivers now.

I'm sure every party would agree to a Renault switcharoo.

[Sieper]

Phil I agree with most things you said but I don't think the perceived anti sainz tantrum is coming from the Verstappen camp. It originated from La Marca and they are in the Sainz camp and have done exactly such a thing before (getting the rumor out there Ver pre-signed at Fer and thus hoping to get RBR upset with Max en Carlos back in). The Sainz camp was called in by Helmut Marko and they discussed this behind closed doors.

I do believe RBR management do not want this kind of intra team shenanigans and therefor will not bring back Sainz. Also I do not believe Sainz to have been constant enough (not beating Hul all the time, rather Hul seems slightly ahead to me) and also having a few rather strange and preventable crashes (Jap last year, Canada this year) to even warrant Sainz getting a just shy of top team seat. I expect Gasly will get it.