2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:58 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm
BTW, Ocon should have gone full attack mode at les combes in first lap or not?

He could have took the lead! Or DNF ok, but the opportunity was worth the risk I think, and his conservatism took him 4th, and behind his teammate

OTOH both Lewis and Vettel would have pass him anycase so maybe the risk was not worth, but he gifted Perez his position, and you don´t want to gift your teammate any position, let alone a final 5th


Opinions?
For Ocon, the possibility of taking out Hamiltons car is a no go. I don't think Toto would try his best anymore to get him in a good seat for next year....
And also why would he want to do that for? Season's best qualifying and the team without any points. They really need those points!

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm
BTW, Ocon should have gone full attack mode at les combes in first lap or not?

He could have took the lead! Or DNF ok, but the opportunity was worth the risk I think, and his conservatism took him 4th, and behind his teammate
Ocon was losing a place to Perez in the first corners, he was not in the position to gain. See E-R against Perez, tow, braking point and slow inside line against 3 better positioned car. Vettel-Hamilton changed it only a bit.

Fiction of talking aferwards instead of delivering it on the track. The BS premise is it was his choice not to lead (association with a positive outcome).

Hulkenberg crash looks worse after replays. There was no racing involved, before the corner, outside line and no cars affecting him in any direction.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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After this race how can we evaluate Merc`s and Ferrari`s 3 PU spec. from the customers' results point of view?
Is this the real picture or is just a far-fetched conclusion?
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Andres125sx
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:58 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm
BTW, Ocon should have gone full attack mode at les combes in first lap or not?

He could have took the lead! Or DNF ok, but the opportunity was worth the risk I think, and his conservatism took him 4th, and behind his teammate

OTOH both Lewis and Vettel would have pass him anycase so maybe the risk was not worth, but he gifted Perez his position, and you don´t want to gift your teammate any position, let alone a final 5th


Opinions?
For Ocon, the possibility of taking out Hamiltons car is a no go. I don't think Toto would try his best anymore to get him in a good seat for next year....
Good point I´m afraid :(


NYGIANTS wrote:i agree somewhat... and my buddy and i were talking about it yesterday,...in that ocon had nothing to lose late braking into les combes for the potential lead.

vettel i would hope wouldn't do something stupid like fight him into the corner since he should only be fighting with lewis, and it would've been interesting restart if ocon was first and vettel and hamilton in 2nd and 3rd.

i think it was lewis and vettel compliments after qualifying is what got into his head, cause he braked a little early for my liking even though he had no where to go after they were 4 wide going into les combes.
Exactly my thoughts, I think it was a potential lead, but very risky. He probably did the right thing


gdanielwesley wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:07 am
Even if Ocon managed to lead..then what? Lewis and Seb would have passed him without any problems. With the benefit of hindsight, only advantage would have been that he would have been ahead of Perez at that point. IMO, he couldn't have known that Perez was going to be ahead of him.

On the other hand if he had messed up, he might have taken out a lead car and ruined his own race. Doesn't make much sense to take so much risk for little reward.
Agree, we all enjoy drivers going full attack mode, but since it was lap 1 the move would have been useless even if he may manage to take the lead


iotar__ wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:51 am
Ocon was losing a place to Perez in the first corners, he was not in the position to gain. See E-R against Perez, tow, braking point and slow inside line against 3 better positioned car. Vettel-Hamilton changed it only a bit.

Fiction of talking aferwards instead of delivering it on the track. The BS premise is it was his choice not to lead (association with a positive outcome).
Ocon lost a place to Perez because he had a big tow from Ferrari and Mercedes, and that´s the reason he built up more speed than they, and had the oportunity to take the inside, but since he chose to not try, he was forced to slow down and let them pass, giving Perez the oportunity to take a faster line at the outside

No need to BS about BS, just analysing the race afterwards, as we all do after every single GP :wink:

Sevach
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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NYGIANTS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:57 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm
BTW, Ocon should have gone full attack mode at les combes in first lap or not?

He could have took the lead! Or DNF ok, but the opportunity was worth the risk I think, and his conservatism took him 4th, and behind his teammate

OTOH both Lewis and Vettel would have pass him anycase so maybe the risk was not worth, but he gifted Perez his position, and you don´t want to gift your teammate any position, let alone a final 5th


Opinions?
i agree somewhat... and my buddy and i were talking about it yesterday,...in that ocon had nothing to lose late braking into les combes for the potential lead.

vettel i would hope wouldn't do something stupid like fight him into the corner since he should only be fighting with lewis, and it would've been interesting restart if ocon was first and vettel and hamilton in 2nd and 3rd.

i think it was lewis and vettel compliments after qualifying is what got into his head, cause he braked a little early for my liking even though he had no where to go after they were 4 wide going into les combes.
Uh he could crash into Vettel and push him into Hamilton as a bonus, end up with zero points and a big penalty for Monza, that sounds like something to loose.
He was on a really super tight line to try and outbrake anyone.

And yes the current crop of drivers seem really deferential to championship leaders, we saw it at Silverstone with Hamilton coming through the field without these guys even bothering to try anything, past generations couldn't wait to have "a piece" of the top drivers.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Ocon was sooo not going to be champion.

Wass85
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Hamilton has always been poor through Eau Rouge and Raidillon, it was this that ultimately cost him the place IMO.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:06 pm
Ocon was sooo not going to be champion.
But champions are quick thinkers. He probably considered himself better off in 3rd place and not having to defend 2 ( or 3 as far as he knew ) faster cars that were going past soon anyway. His race was not with them (well, not for long anyway)
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Ooooh but he was going for it, he just sucked his balls back in at the last moment. Which Ofcourse was the right thing to do as outlined by the previous posters.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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max_speed wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:27 am
getting paid in same currency hurts. Lewis blaming " tricks" on the "Ferrari" just shows how frustrated he is. past years, they were passing people half way through straight and were faking they had serious competition at their hands. come to real world mercedes this is "real" competition. stop being dolly . hamilton is still leading championship because "ferrari"/"vettel" committed few mistakes.i am not avettel fan but he was good today. i want to see face of "TOTO" the guy who kept claiming mercedes have faced serious competition in winning those championships.
You obviously are not familiar with the language.
Trick can mean "clever" such as "trick suspension" or it can mean a tease/"Ho"/gold digger

It doesn't take too much thought to see which one Hamilton meant.In formula 1 vernacular Trick is a normal word.
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LH44

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:15 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:01 pm
I´ve always enjoied Lewis driving, but IMHO time is proving best driver in F1 will be out of F1 next season. Lewis lacks mental strenght, he´s easily demotivated. And Vettel makes too many mistakes.... ok not that much, but when compared to Alonso, yes, he makes more mistakes by some margin

Hopefully he´ll win the triple crown in 2019 and someone will offer him a top seat in F1 for 2020 or 2021. He really deserves some more title

Has someone won F1, WEC and Indy championships? I think he can change the definition of triple crown ;)
Yes, Fuji 2007, Hungary 2007 were all definitions of mental toughness and not making 'mistakes.' Vettel and Hamilton are at least the same level as Alonso and if you ask me they're much better.
Of course, suffering aquaplanning under heavy rain is an evidence of mental weakness... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Much better... then might you explain what´s the reason Alonso almost beat Vettel twice (2010 and 2012) with an inferior car wich constantly qualified several positions below Seb? And please, do not say that was because of Vettel, take a look at RBR and Ferrari wingmen before exposing yourself :P
Unfortunately for you, I don't argue with blokes who stand by the theory 'my favourite driver won in a car much slower than yours and your favourite driver only can win because he has the best car.' You're quite popular for this.

I'm sure you know which car was superior and inferior since you drove them yourself! One comment I loved 'Alonso almost beat Vettel in 2010 and 2012. Well, sport is dependent on small margins when it comes to winning and losing. I have something for you btw- Vettel has beaten Alonso for ten WDC in a row now. So, happy weeping and retirement to you!
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

basti313
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:25 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:06 pm
Ocon was sooo not going to be champion.
But champions are quick thinkers. He probably considered himself better off in 3rd place and not having to defend 2 ( or 3 as far as he knew ) faster cars that were going past soon anyway. His race was not with them (well, not for long anyway)
I do not think you can read so much into this.
Ocon had exactly one duty by his team. Keep the car in one piece through lap 1.
Divebombing Vettel or Hamilton is exactly the opposite of this. He was well off the racing line, well off grip in a car that does not brake like a Red bull, Ferrari or Merc. Pushing the brake where he pushed it was the only right thing to do. Just like Perez took it smart and easy.
It is borderline stupid to mock him for not divebombing there.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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matt_b wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:38 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:05 am
https://youtu.be/9GW-QutnX-E
Great stuff, however in 2017 Lewis had a brand new spec 4 engine and Seb had a very old spec 3 Ferrari engine. What shocked me last year is that Ferrari had the better race pace and Seb followed Lewis closely all through the race. There was also a massive headwind this year which everyone was talking about just before lights out, just looks at the Pink cars with that Mercedes engine down that straight.
Look at this. At Monza Ferrari also brought their new spec 4 engine. Still, absolutely no chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFZSxX1yOj0#t=1m26s

alexx_88
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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NYGIANTS wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:57 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm
BTW, Ocon should have gone full attack mode at les combes in first lap or not?

He could have took the lead! Or DNF ok, but the opportunity was worth the risk I think, and his conservatism took him 4th, and behind his teammate

OTOH both Lewis and Vettel would have pass him anycase so maybe the risk was not worth, but he gifted Perez his position, and you don´t want to gift your teammate any position, let alone a final 5th


Opinions?
i agree somewhat... and my buddy and i were talking about it yesterday,...in that ocon had nothing to lose late braking into les combes for the potential lead.

But he had everything to lose... He knew it would be impossible to sustain the lead given the pace difference between FI and the top teams, so it would've only been 1-2 glory laps. On the other hand, the risks were huge. Remember that to his left were the two WDC contenders, one of them being in the team that's looking after his F1 career. This could've very easily ended up in tears, for him, for Vettel and Hamilton or any random combination of this bunch. I actually think he did an incredibly mature thing given the circumstances and the pressure he's under while fighting for an F1 seat. Thinking about the bigger picture is a trademark of the very best drivers.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2018 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 24-26 August

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:11 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:15 pm


Yes, Fuji 2007, Hungary 2007 were all definitions of mental toughness and not making 'mistakes.' Vettel and Hamilton are at least the same level as Alonso and if you ask me they're much better.
Of course, suffering aquaplanning under heavy rain is an evidence of mental weakness... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Much better... then might you explain what´s the reason Alonso almost beat Vettel twice (2010 and 2012) with an inferior car wich constantly qualified several positions below Seb? And please, do not say that was because of Vettel, take a look at RBR and Ferrari wingmen before exposing yourself :P
Unfortunately for you, I don't argue with blokes who stand by the theory 'my favourite driver won in a car much slower than yours and your favourite driver only can win because he has the best car.' You're quite popular for this.

I'm sure you know which car was superior and inferior since you drove them yourself! One comment I loved 'Alonso almost beat Vettel in 2010 and 2012. Well, sport is dependent on small margins when it comes to winning and losing. I have something for you btw- Vettel has beaten Alonso for ten WDC in a row now. So, happy weeping and retirement to you!
Than we can discuss, as I never said that :P

Anycase you´re right, I never drove any of those cars so that probably means Ferrari was a superior car to RBR in 2010-14 period :wtf: :lol: :lol:

And don´t worry, neither Alonso or myself are retiring, I´m watching F1 since years before Alonso did his first test for Minardi so will continue after, and Alonso will contiune racing in WEC and Indy :wink: