2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Edax
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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McMika98 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:35 am
Based on tidbits Honda have been doing lots of test with RB gearbox recently on dyno. So maybe they have not quite reached the maturation but could be there in the penultimate races when there is nothing to lose. Gasly doing a seat fit on Daniels car could also suggest he might be there sooner than expected as they would not want Danny Ric anywhere near a Honda unit.
As I understand the RB gearbox is too long for the Honda engine. Initially Toro rosso asked for a McLaren gearbox, but in the end they chose to repackage the RB gearbox with the help of Red Bull technologies. If that is correct then they can just port that development back into the Red Bull team.

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etusch
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:08 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:35 am
Based on tidbits Honda have been doing lots of test with RB gearbox recently on dyno. So maybe they have not quite reached the maturation but could be there in the penultimate races when there is nothing to lose. Gasly doing a seat fit on Daniels car could also suggest he might be there sooner than expected as they would not want Danny Ric anywhere near a Honda unit.
As I understand the RB gearbox is too long for the Honda engine. Initially Toro rosso asked for a McLaren gearbox, but in the end they chose to repackage the RB gearbox with the help of Red Bull technologies. If that is correct then they can just port that development back into the Red Bull team.
I find it strange if RB gearbox is longer than others. Because renault engine layout is longer than Honda's. Redbull car is one of smallest. When I think in this way...

Hino
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Helmut Marko: Red Bull 2021 with Honda or exit

Will the Formula 1 World Championship start in 2021 without Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso? That's quite possible, the race boss Dr. Helmut Marko look through.

What does Formula 1 look like in three years? It is also conceivable that it is a Formula 1 without Red Bull. Because the Graz Red Bull racing boss Dr. Helmut Marko says at the Italian Grand Prix in Monza: "We are happy to have a great partner with Honda for the next few years. However, should this cooperation - for whatever reason - not work as expected, Red Bull would only be leaving the Formula One. »

There are two reasons for the fact that there is only Honda or nothing for Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso: Of the current engine manufacturers, two (Mercedes and Ferrari) refuse Red Bull as customers, leaving Renault at the end of this season for a broken relationship.

And the change in the engine regulations from 2021, accelerated not only by Red Bull, but also by other private teams, to bring new manufacturers to Formula One through a simplified hybrid system, is practically off the table. It fails because of the resistance of the current four engine manufacturers - including Honda. This will most likely not be a Formula 1 return from Porsche, Cosworth or even Aston Martin (as engine manufacturer).

Dr. But Marko immediately makes it clear: "The partnership with Honda is going very well so far with Toro Rosso and will continue to work with Red Bull Racing in 2019." The Le Mans winner of the year 1971 already made the optimistic forecast stand out: "We will Clear ahead of Renault in 2019. »

It had obviously not lacked much, and Formula 1 would have already lost for 2018 Honda. Marko continues: "After the McLaren disaster, Honda was close to retiring from F1 at the end of 2017. We had to convince the Japanese in some intensive talks to start with us again. »

Open to drivers is Toro Rosso in 2019, when Pierre Gasly will replace Australian Daniel Ricciardo at Red Bull Racing. The chances of the current Toro Rosso driver Brendon Hartley are mixed results mixed: "There should be a significant increase in the last season's races," Marko confirms, but excludes a replacement of the New Zealander during the season.

For 2019, Toro Rosso says, "It's not a shortlist, but rather a longlist," smiles the Austrian, adding, "There are ten names on it."

Marko says, "It's not going to be one with a Mercedes tie." However, he also notes, "Everything's possible."

A name had to be canceled on Monday: Lando Norris will race for the 2019 for McLaren . If the Englishman had not received a Formula 1 car from the traditional English racing stable, he would have been free to leave McLaren.

Revs84
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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etusch wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:50 am
Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:08 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:35 am
Based on tidbits Honda have been doing lots of test with RB gearbox recently on dyno. So maybe they have not quite reached the maturation but could be there in the penultimate races when there is nothing to lose. Gasly doing a seat fit on Daniels car could also suggest he might be there sooner than expected as they would not want Danny Ric anywhere near a Honda unit.
As I understand the RB gearbox is too long for the Honda engine. Initially Toro rosso asked for a McLaren gearbox, but in the end they chose to repackage the RB gearbox with the help of Red Bull technologies. If that is correct then they can just port that development back into the Red Bull team.
I find it strange if RB gearbox is longer than others. Because renault engine layout is longer than Honda's. Redbull car is one of smallest. When I think in this way...
Due to the compressor being at the front, the Honda engine sits further back in the chassis.

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etusch
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Revs84 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:38 pm
etusch wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:50 am
Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:08 pm

As I understand the RB gearbox is too long for the Honda engine. Initially Toro rosso asked for a McLaren gearbox, but in the end they chose to repackage the RB gearbox with the help of Red Bull technologies. If that is correct then they can just port that development back into the Red Bull team.
I find it strange if RB gearbox is longer than others. Because renault engine layout is longer than Honda's. Redbull car is one of smallest. When I think in this way...
Due to the compressor being at the front, the Honda engine sits further back in the chassis.
Both part of Turbo are behind the engine of Renault. Isn't this cause some different design for their gb like the gb sits away from engine?

flexcon
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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[/quote] Both part of Turbo are behind the engine of Renault. Isn't this cause some different design for their gb like the gb sits away from engine?
[/quote]

Gearbox sits under the turbo slightly more on the Renault. So if you can imagine the Honda BLOCK is further back and gives less room for the gearbox which sits as low as the block. On the Renault and Ferrari side, the turbo sits above a portion of this.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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I may be putting 2 and 2 together and making 79 but just thinking back to the oil problem Honda had, and (just to keep on topic) RBR would need to be aware of.

If I recall correctly. Honda were having aeration problems in the oil. Did they also not have to make a specially shaped oil tank to allow the compressor to move forward?
Don't know why, but it never occurred to me until now, this is going to put high frequency vibration right in the oil tank? (the position of the oil tank is fixed??)

Could well be why Honda want so many gearbox to enduro test?
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rogazilla
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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I think and I hope the whole oil aeration issue and high frequency has been put to bed. All the gear boxes hopefully being used to test different iteration of PU. Each PU could have different version of parts attached and run with gear boxes.

Another one is from previous article they mentioned that they simulate running on track on the dyno. Having multiple gear boxes, you can simulate different energy strategy and mapping at the same time and see the result instantly.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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flexcon wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:02 pm
Both part of Turbo are behind the engine of Renault. Isn't this cause some different design for their gb like the gb sits away from engine?
[/quote]

Gearbox sits under the turbo slightly more on the Renault. So if you can imagine the Honda BLOCK is further back and gives less room for the gearbox which sits as low as the block. On the Renault and Ferrari side, the turbo sits above a portion of this.
[/quote]

The oil tank and compressor up front moves the engine back about 10cm? However you only have the turbine to deal with in the back vs Renault, which means that you can repackage the transmission and give yourself a little more space in the diffuser central section. On the other hand, this may affect the routing and position of the heat exchangers which could have a bigger impact on aero than a little extra diffuser space. Development would start with whichever design is harder to change to be set in stone first, and perhaps sacrifice some early season performance.
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Shakeman
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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This maybe pulled out of some journos arse at FuxSports but Red Bull threatening to quit after 2020, how soon after 2020 they don't say!

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... 5cad23c6de

Those column inches don't fill themselves.

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Thunder
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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It's just the bi-monthly quit Threat..... getting old.
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djos
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Thunder wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:46 am
It's just the bi-monthly quit Threat..... getting old.
I had the same thought .... I dont think Dan is going to miss all the RBR drama.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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It's what all big teams do. Mercedes and Ferrari did it to veto the engine rule changes, RB responds with the same. But it is tiresome indeed.

lio007
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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Ah….I really don’t like this lurid headlines.
In the original interview was no word about requirements to be a title contender. (=> although that’s obviously the main target for every team, but in this context it gives the impression “if Honda is not able to get their act together and we don't win a championship, we’re leaving F1 because of Honda” , and as I said, that was not part of the original interview)

The quotes in the original order:
“We are very happy to have Honda as our partner for the next 2 years. But if this collaboration doesn’t work out as expected – for whatever reason – then we are only left to leave F1.
…Because Mercedes and Ferrari won’t supply them with power units, and they’ve parted ways with Renault just recently. And their main focus is not a customer team, but their works team.

But Dr. Marko makes it immediately clear that “The partnership with Toro Rosso and Honda works very, very well, and this will also be the case for RBR in 2019”

So in my opinion there is absolutely no RBR drama, just bad journalism á la "make a mountain out of a molehill"

ivanlesk
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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lio007 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:35 am
Ah….I really don’t like this lurid headlines.
In the original interview was no word about requirements to be a title contender. (=> although that’s obviously the main target for every team, but in this context it gives the impression “if Honda is not able to get their act together and we don't win a championship, we’re leaving F1 because of Honda” , and as I said, that was not part of the original interview)

The quotes in the original order:
“We are very happy to have Honda as our partner for the next 2 years. But if this collaboration doesn’t work out as expected – for whatever reason – then we are only left to leave F1.
…Because Mercedes and Ferrari won’t supply them with power units, and they’ve parted ways with Renault just recently. And their main focus is not a customer team, but their works team.

But Dr. Marko makes it immediately clear that “The partnership with Toro Rosso and Honda works very, very well, and this will also be the case for RBR in 2019”

So in my opinion there is absolutely no RBR drama, just bad journalism á la "make a mountain out of a molehill"
Oh, but there is thereat, just not directed to Honda.

Marko points this to FIA and tries to put "pressure" on them for rules on 2021 and onwards.
There is no point in being a part of competition that doesn't enable you to win. If Honda doesn't come good they can't win championships no matter how good their chassis is or their dev team is strong.