2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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LM10
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by LM10 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:06 pm


As a lot of people have said, pushing hard on corners with run offs is much less risk than pushing hard on corners with no run off and a wall. Vettels error is definitely bigger than Hamiltons errors.

On skysports I think it was Anthony Davidson who said on Vettels lap that he's running a lot closer to the wall than the Mercedes and RedBull drivers and then less than 1 minute later he tagged the wall.

Why risk so much so early ?

Ferrari 2019 drivers in the wall today :o
Because practice is where you test out the limits and step by step go there, also increasing confidence this way.

Last year he also kissed the walls in his Q3 run and at the end there was no one even close to his time.
Definitely in Q3 you almost want to be rubbing the wall, but Practice2 ??

High risk no gain. Lewis and Kimi know they clocked a 1.37.7 flat with room left for a bit more.

Seb was almost as quick as those 2 but broke his car and left next to nothing on the table.
Which part of "test out the limits" didn't you understand? That's practice, it happens.

The Vettel-bashing is getting tiring and ridiculous already.

siskue2005
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by siskue2005 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 pm

LM10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 pm


Because practice is where you test out the limits and step by step go there, also increasing confidence this way.

Last year he also kissed the walls in his Q3 run and at the end there was no one even close to his time.
Definitely in Q3 you almost want to be rubbing the wall, but Practice2 ??

High risk no gain. Lewis and Kimi know they clocked a 1.37.7 flat with room left for a bit more.

Seb was almost as quick as those 2 but broke his car and left next to nothing on the table.
Which part of "test out the limits" didn't you understand? That's practice, it happens.

The Vettel-bashing is getting tiring and ridiculous already.
people should not take everything personally

When it was Max who crashed, everyone bashed him

When it was Lewis who said BS, then everyone bashed him

this is race weekend discussion, when someone makes mistakes it will be discussed

If the championship contenders do it, it will be even more of a problem

Vettel has been really error prone in this season, cannot look past that......which has cost him more points to Lewis, so any more error by him will be looked under microscope

It is not bashing or anti Vettel (i already got warnings from mod for questioning Vettel's driving in FP2)....any sensible Vettel fan will understand this

dans79
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by dans79 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:15 pm

LM10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm
Which part of "test out the limits" didn't you understand? That's practice, it happens.

The Vettel-bashing is getting tiring and ridiculous already.
you seem to not understand a fundamental concept about testing limits. you build up to them, inching ever closer with out going over, going over is what costs you!

Not to mention the track will evolve significantly by qualifying, making pushing over the limits in fp2 utterly pointless.

Phil
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by Phil » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:04 pm

Come on guys. Dont always have to make this about driver vs driver type arguments. They all make mistakes, they all drive as close as possible to the limits. When you stop doing that, you might as well call it a day. It’s amazing how few mistakes these drivers make across a season/career. Lets not get hung up about Vettels minor wall brush. Like it or not, Vettel is still likely to be the driver to beat this weekend on this circuit. He is mighty around Singapore, make no mistake about it.

Can we move on now?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:06 pm

I have been 'bashing' (as you call it) drivers who make mistakes for a long time! Over the last 2 years Vettel , Max and maybe Grosjean have made the most mistakes. Its only LM10 (vettel) and apexcontrol ( Max) who get all angry over it. No one cares for Grosjean :lol: :lol:

This is the best show on the planet, I pay for my ticket (viewing) so when someone screws up, I have to right to point and laugh.


We can move on now Phil....

I was very surprised how far off 1 lap pace the Bulls were this afternoon. I was one who thought they would be possibly the fastest :oops: and we still have Party mode to come!
GoLandoGo
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Edax
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by Edax » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:18 pm

dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:15 pm
LM10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:36 pm
Which part of "test out the limits" didn't you understand? That's practice, it happens.

The Vettel-bashing is getting tiring and ridiculous already.
you seem to not understand a fundamental concept about testing limits. you build up to them, inching ever closer with out going over, going over is what costs you!

Not to mention the track will evolve significantly by qualifying, making pushing over the limits in fp2 utterly pointless.
The concept of Inching closer to the limits suggests that you either know where the limits are or that you can feel the limits when you get close to them. Reality is that you only know the limits when you have crossed them. So the goal is to find the limits by crossing them while keeping sufficient margin for recovery.

I think FP2 is the ideal place to do that. Yes the track will evolve. But In FP2 you run the car with an old gearbox and engine and you have time for repairs. If you wait until FP3 you may end up with a car stuck in the garage during Q.

Gr1ff
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by Gr1ff » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 pm

Testing is always aggressive driving that's how you test the car. If you just dolly round you'll never reach the fastest setup. Hence why you see so many offs during practice and not the race.

cooken
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by cooken » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:11 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:01 pm
Bangs head against wall.
FTFY.
Very surprised to see Vettel hitting the wall like that in P2.

What happened to chances of rain? Still some lingering around?

dans79
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by dans79 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:39 pm

Edax wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:18 pm
The concept of Inching closer to the limits suggests that you either know where the limits are or that you can feel the limits when you get close to them. Reality is that you only know the limits when you have crossed them. So the goal is to find the limits by crossing them while keeping sufficient margin for recovery.
Either way you look at it he didn't do it properly. And the impact he made wasn't a small one either, as he was leaking hydraulic fluid all over the garage floor.

Webber2011
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by Webber2011 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:05 am

MtthsMlw wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:52 pm
djones wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:14 pm
Phil wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:59 pm
I am not concerned about Vettel making a mistake. What caught me was how he brushed the wall and immediately darted into the pits. I guess i would have expected him to carry on, perhaps another lap, to assess how the car felt and if there was damage. But he did not, he got into the pits and was on the radio.

Of course, in hindsight, there was damage, so it was a good call.

The only thing i am questioning, is by his quick reaction, if that gearbox is perhaps crucial - more crucial than just one that is used for FP practices. Maybe we are all reading too much into it, but given how strong Ferrari and Vettel have been on this track, i would say that carrying any sort of penalty into the race would be a huge blow.
I'm sure there was a fluid leak. This probably showed almost instantly as a pressure warning on the wheel.
Brake fluid according to AMuS.
Couple of question for all you guys.

(1) There's so many sensors in a modern day F1 car, surely there would be an instant loss of brake pressure shown on the telemetry ?

More importantly though
(2) If there's brake fluid pissing out of the car, wouldn't the driver feel the pedal getting long pretty quickly ?

tranquility2k4
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by tranquility2k4 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:51 am

I have to say, very impressed with Hamilton and Merc's potential round here. Quite shocked actually. I thought they may be a bit closer this year, but it looks like there's a genuine chance that they could be on pole. The telling sign is Hamilton was fastest in sector 2 and 3, with the latter being all slow speed corners - they must have improved their car / setup significantly. I imagine what we're seeing is the benefit of the Austria aero upgrade, they already were strong in Hungary, if you remember in FP3 Bottas was right with Vettel in the dry and then in the race Hamilton's pace was strong. Ferrari have made their car better for traditional, higher speed circuits, and as a result have probably lost a bit of an edge on the low speed whilst Red Bull have just been out developed, as they're not going for the title.

If you saw Hamilton's on board during his fastest lap in FP2 the car looked very responsive, and had a great balance, he could place it wherever he wanted and take some nice lines through the corners. If he gets pole Vettel's screwed for the championship.

basti313
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by basti313 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:37 am

tranquility2k4 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:51 am
I have to say, very impressed with Hamilton and Merc's potential round here.
Yes. Let us see what happens in Q and the race, but I have the feeling, that Merc took it easy in the first half of the season. Just to let the others sniff their panties and check how much they can hold back for 19. Now they pack the good things on the car and kick balls.Quite similar to the second half last season...

Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by Sierra117 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:38 am

Juzh wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:23 pm
gasly, ocon, ricciardo, perez, vandoorne FP2 laps

hq: https://streamable.com/mfyu1
https://streamable.com/mfyu1
Thanks for these, good stuff.

Does Z Racing show footage with no commentary often?

NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by NathanOlder » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:41 am

Intersting prediction Basti313. Hamilton see's how far ahead they are with all the bits they are holding back and signs a 2yr extension. :lol:

I don't think they would flirt this closely with losing the title. 1 driver error, 1 break down and 1 accident with another driver and you could lose 75pts. So i don't think they would do such a thing. It would be very entertaining from a Mercedes fans perspective
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0

djones
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

Post by djones » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:09 am

Come on....

Hitting a wall and damaging the car is NOT testing the limits, that is crashing.

Testing the limits is running wide where there is run-off or braking so late you lock and go too deep.

As a different subject, I think they have changed T7 overnight, painting a line you now cannot cross. Looking at laps in FP this will effect Vettel the most as he likes to run super wide there.