Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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Greg Locock
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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Sorry, yes, batteries as frequency stabilisers are great. They've taken a significant proportion of the USA's frequency stabilisation market as well. But you don't get misleading press releases about them because (a) not Tesla and (b) not South Australia (the mendicant state) which needs all the positive financial news it can get.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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in the UK we don't consider the economics of NDGs because they are a religion
and Drax claims modern steam plant (not nuclear) is responsive to changes in demand and needs little standby capacity

today's news is from Drax c.4000 MW power station - they now intend to go 'carbon negative'
a pilot scheme - solvent removal of CO2 from the flue gas of one of their 4 wood-fired generation units
store the CO2 under the sea or sell it to industry
a few of these and we'll have cut our carbon to nothing
we're paying them (Drax) a $1000000000 annual subsidy to burn that wood
maybe soon we'll be paying them $2000000000

btw today 'they' said that childhood leukaemia is caused by immune systems undertraining due to insufficient germs ...

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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yesterday the UK saw the white head of an arctic Beluga whale swimming upstream in the Thames, towards London
these creatures are highly sociable and would be drawn to other white-headed mammals habitually swimming upstream
the attracting entity is likely to be another silly Beluga habitually swimming upstream, one Jeremy Corbyn

today Mr Corbyn announces his idea of a 60% UK reduction in net carbon emission by 2030 and 100% by 2050
(80% is the actual current 2050 target)
he might (unlike the infamously deluded Mr Blair) know the difference between electrical energy and all energy
(electrical energy is about 16% of all energy - much of all energy being heat energy)
he might appear to know that low-carbon and renewable are different things - unless conflating them as is traditional ?
he plans a programme of retro-installation of extra insulation in homes - and even more wind turbines (including onshore)

he mentions tidal power - but is this the magic tidal lagoons ?
these avoid EU obligations for the UK to rehome nature, but would forever prevent proper tidal energy schemes
if the UK actually ever leaves the political union that it never joined could it reduce its obligation to eaters of mudlife ?


btw to self
Drax has now completely gone from coal fuel to wood fuel
UK Vivergo is now closing its bioethanol-from-wheat plant
the Renewable Heat Initiative is/was paying 1.60 GBP to each burning of wood fuel costing 1 GBP (the NI scandal reveals)
the UK RHI is not so bad for the taxpayer - it degrades air quality by increasing particulates but that must be ok

roon
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:51 am
he might appear to know that low-carbon and renewable are different things - unless conflating them as is traditional ?
Seems common. There are odd calculi that occur which determine the criteria for alternative energy projects. Tidal power seems like it would be disruptive and noisy toward aquatic fauna. Windmills that kill birds, solar projects that cover over desert ecosystems. Giant GM monocrops for biofuels seem like a particularly egregious form of greenwashing. Always there are compromises, and carbon footprints seem to be the prioritized target.

Tommy Cookers
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today's news (to me) is Drax Repower
using 2 existing 600 Mw steam turbine power generation sets in combined cycle with 4 new gas turbine power gensets
over 60% efficient giving 3600 MW with no more CO2 emissions than the existing (occasional) coal firing gives for 1200 MW
plus 200 MW to/from batteries

today there's protests by a lot of plebby technological morons who are against it

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Andres125sx
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This is so far from my knownledge level I can´t even get a conclusion, but looks like they continue the development

https://e-catworld.com/2019/02/11/video ... culations/


Tommy Cookers
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:25 pm
today's news (to me) is Drax Repower
using 2 existing 600 Mw steam turbine power generation sets in combined cycle with 4 new gas turbine power gensets
over 60% efficient giving 3600 MW with no more CO2 emissions than the existing (occasional) coal firing gives for 1200 MW
plus 200 MW to/from batteries
today there's protests ....
and now more protests ....
though Drax says Repower will bring UK carbon reduction forward another 2 years
Biofuelwatch says Drax woodburning doesn't reduce warming emissions as it increases biosphere methane/carbon release ...
and gas-fired power stations aren't 'twice as clean' as coal-fired because .....
'only' 3% methane loss to atmosphere in 'gas production' would negate the whole carbon benefit of gas-firing
(methane being 25x as warming as CO2)
true the loss in production by UK fracking would be significant
afaik 4% loss in production would be necessary to negate Repower as it's combined cycle not simple cycle

Biofuelwatch are crazies because ......
they say all UK energy (they mean UK electricity) should and could come from solar and wind farms and tidal power
in this they are conspiring with all the others to behave as if humankind doesn't need heat to live
(electricity is 17.5% of total UK final energy - heat energy need is far more than electrical energy need)

a recent report to the UK CCC says new homes from 2025 shouldn't be allowed to connect to the gas main ....
unless they have huge gardens sufficient for heating by ground source heat pumps they ....
should be small with people packed in hundreds around communal recycle-fuelled combined heat-and-power schemes
wouldn't that be nice !

NL_Fer
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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I believe the EV is needed, because it is the most efficiënt type of propulsion. Renewable energy in the form of electricity to charge a battery will always be more efficiënt than hydrogen fuelcells or synthesized fuel from renewable energy.

Maybe long distance trucks will keep internal combusition for a longer time, like (synthesized) CNG but the Tesla semi looks pretty good and a finished product.

But yes for heat, we use a lot more than transportation and on top if it: half is used in the winter months. We would need months of energy storage and recovering heat is more efficiënt than electricity.

Unless if we would reconsider nuclear power....

That would chance allot...

Tommy Cookers
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yesterday the UK Parliament 'passed a (non-binding) motion' declaring a .... Climate (and Environmental) Emergency
Ed Miliband (with Vaizey and Swinson) explained on TV that UK fossil-fuelled heating will be replaced with electrical heating

1. this represents a total and huge manipulation of policy -
(though as one who says 'all EV cars' is just tokenism I'm vindicated)
2. this 'renewable' electricity is apparently unlimited in quantity and entirely carbon-free
(though I think this would require a 3000% expansion of the existing 'low-hanging fruit' renewables programme)
3. any shortfall of wind and/or sunshine will be compensated by tidal generation
(though tidal as a regionalist political toy is the form favoured by the above politicians)
4. work-gangs will enter homes and other buildings to 'insulate' them and then implement the heating replacement
(this heating replacement is to be explained in the 2020 Home Heating Plan)
5. we will plant 3 billion trees and build swamps - costing c.15% of our farming land
6. the cost remains as previously - £43 billion annually

'developing countries' were stated to be exempt from any obligation to contribute to global reduction of carbon emissions
coal-loving, forest-hating China, India, Indonesia, Brazil etc seemed to be seen as developing countries

and today the UK Committee on Climate Change says a 'near zero' carbon UK by 2050 is possible ... at no extra cost
we must keep our houses no warmer than 19 deg C ('my' generation kept/keeps 1 room at 17 deg C - the rest unheated)
eat less meat ('my' generation knew postwar meat rationing that was more severe than any in wartime)
travel less (unless by compulsory 2030-on all-electric cars or all-electric public transport presumably)
if the UK sets this example the rest of the world will follow - anyway we're guilty, for inventing the industrial revolution
(in poor countries increased meat-eating is a heartfelt goal - shall we tell them we don't approve ?)

serving the above campaign the BBC parrots out the standard-issue EU/UK Govt lie .....that (as if it was a truth)....
'cars are the biggest single source of carbon emissions' .... but ....
looking at typical annual bills for domestic heating fuel and for car use - they are about equal (say £1000) .... though ....
heating fuel is untaxed car fuel carries 2 compounded taxes increasing its cost 4 fold
a £1000 worth of heating fuel is 4 times as big ie has 4 times the heat (and carbon) as a £1000 worth of car fuel
the EU of course prevents heating being counted as a single source of carbon emissions - so the car can be blamed


these liberals and closet liberals (and public servants who don't serve) aren't unpatriotic - they're antipatriotic
647 of our 650 MPs have no qualification in Civil Engineering, or in Mechanical Engineering, or in Electrical Engineering
the 647 know-nothings include the 3 self-serving Labour, Conservative, and Liberal blabbermouths named above


yesterday a schoolboy who had thrown a small piece of cheese at another was acquitted of causing death
(the other having died due to hypersensitivity to existence)
today the High Court announced a new inquest into the 2013 death of a 9 year old girl from asthma
because a campaign group wants a verdict of death by traffic ('pollution') particulates (these have fallen by 80% since 1970)
most particulates come from 21st century wood-burning heating systems funded by the taxpayer for environmental benefit
the BBC says this inquest will establish the cause of death - are we allowed to ask how it will do that ?
we are now to believe the doctors were wrong in (reportedly) saying previous asthma attacks were related to high pollen count
a friend's job was increasing to 230000 the tree count in just one London borough (tree pollen breaks into micronic particles)
the most frequent cause of asthma is faeces from house dust mites - driven by modern housing being warm and humid
and btw we're told that making 1 slice of toast generates indoor particulate levels 10x the current environmental limit

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Andres125sx
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Re: Energy distribution (and electricity generation)

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Sorry Tommy but I don´t get what you mean...

You´ve been criticizing UK government repeatedly because of ignoring heating as a cause of emissions while promoting EVs, and now that they face this problem too... you continue criticizing?

Zynerji
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Andres125sx wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 6:05 pm
Sorry Tommy but I don´t get what you mean...

You´ve been criticizing UK government repeatedly because of ignoring heating as a cause of emissions while promoting EVs, and now that they face this problem too... you continue criticizing?
I think he's criticizing the methods they are proposing to fix the problem, while knowingly ignoring the REAL problem.

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Andres125sx
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Zynerji wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:14 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 6:05 pm
Sorry Tommy but I don´t get what you mean...

You´ve been criticizing UK government repeatedly because of ignoring heating as a cause of emissions while promoting EVs, and now that they face this problem too... you continue criticizing?
I think he's criticizing the methods they are proposing to fix the problem, while knowingly ignoring the REAL problem.
The real problem, if you mean so, is producing electricity with no emissions and replace wood, carbon and fuel plants, wich is something every first world country is doing for years now, some even for decades. But this obviously requires some more decades to reach 100% or get close to. Specially when people is not going to reduce power demands, and actually this will be increased by EVs

But most governments are promoting self-producers wich IMHO is the best way to both reduce emissions and also power demands to the grid. I´m considering myself a big sustainable instalation to feed my home and even an electric car and electric bike, apart from my drones.

I sincerely think pointing fingers to electricity because polluting a small fraction, when we all are using fossil fuels wich pollute massively is short signed and could even be considered irresponsible

Tommy Cookers
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the real problem is the real pollution - the pollution that causes excessive climate change
any other pollution is trivial (in the 'developed world')

electricity-generation pollution was never more than 30% of the total pollution that causes excessive climate change
groups in Parliament have turned 180 deg in their declaration - to make the stated position of the Government turn 180 deg
(the stated position is the announcement implying that there will be a stated position on heating in a paper in 2020)

decarbonisation of electricity generation has progressed well in the windy UK (not just in sunny Spain or Australia)
but even 100% decarbonisation of electricity is only 30% of the total decarbonisation needed for 'zero carbon' (by 2050)

officialdom now agrees with what I have been telling people for 20 years
until 2 days ago they disagreed
what they aren't saying is that this (total UK decarbonisation by 2050) is an impossible task (and pointless)
making heating all-electrical will require a 2000-3000% increase on present 'zero-carbon' electricity generation
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Sat May 04, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Greg Locock
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Coal is the dominant CO2 source from fossil fuels. Demand for oil, gas and coal is growing, and expected to grow for the next 15 years. Transport is about 20% of the energy we use. https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/busin ... k-2019.pdf

Zynerji
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Need to build LFTR reactors.