McLaren MCL33

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ALO_Power
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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How can we spot separation and what does it mean? Air flow detachment --> lack of downforce ?

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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:42 pm
Quite a bit of separation from the rear wing (Racecar Engineering):
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201810 ... 95f849.jpg
That is interesting. The top part of the rear wing sits a little further forward. That will accelerate the airflow on the back of the upper wing, the air rushing up of the lower/front part of the rear wing will hit the upper/back, and decrease the airflow on the front of the upper wing.

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Re: McLaren MCL33

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ALO_Power wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:18 pm
How can we spot separation and what does it mean? Air flow detachment --> lack of downforce ?
The way I see it, detachment, can be either good or bad. At the end of the day you're trying to guide air to attach to surfaces you're using to guide it and detach where you want it to. So I think your question is rather vague.

It is bad when it detaches and reattaches at places your expecting it to stay attached. In other words air stop flowing to the places you want and results in a loss of DF. Especially If that's in the middle of a corner ....

A few years ago some teams had delays with the air reattaching to the rear wing after the DRS had closed. Presume those teams got complaints from the drivers that the df didn't return right away and they must have verified it in the tunnel. I believe the teams also have sensors that detect the points of df.

Detachment from the front wing in certain types/speed of curves is bad. Cars have many layers on the front wing because It:
1 - Decreases the likely hood of all the layers detaching, the airflow between the layers helps keep everything flowing in the right direction.
2 - Decreases the severity, if one layer detaches you still have several attached layers.

I presume this type of separation is really hard to see.

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Here's Alonso Q1 lap from today. Some key points:

1. Even with a very skinny rear wing there's no oversteer like before.
2. The car seems like it wants to go faster in 8th on the first straight but is mechanically limited. The transmission just doesn't rev anymore.
3. Balance is good.


https://cdn-b-east.streamable.com/video ... 1538852779

Dipesh1995
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Here's the 2017 quali lap for comparative purposes. The lap time was about 8 tenths faster despite having less power and using harder tyres; track conditions were also probably better which may explain just some of the deficit.
Last edited by Dipesh1995 on Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hollus
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Interesting video, thanks.

In many gears, after the upshift, we can read 102xx or 103xx rpm at first. This is below the 10500 limit in the fuel flow formula. I don't recall this happening to this extent in other cars/seasons.
The highest RPM in the whole video is 117xx, once, followed by 116xx three times for a split second each. The vast majority of upshifts happen at 115xx or even earlier. Off the top of my head, this is unusual, and other teams/seasons typically had multiple excursions above those values.
Then, in 8th, they seem to run our of juice at 310 or even 300km/h (uphill), with the revs around 11250 or even below 11000.

I'll post a bit more on gears later / tomorrow and I'll compare to a few more videos of other teams and revisit if needed, but my feeling right now is that the engine's power simply drops like a stone above 11000 rpm. Which is probably atypical of most teams/seasons. If this is the case, there wouldn't be anything wrong with the gearing by itself, it would be more a question of dealing with an impossibly narrow power peak which could have demanded special gearing choices.
As JPM once said: Oh dear!
I would like to see a paleontologist.

ALO_Power
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Dipesh1995 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-BzHE19mpo

Here's the 2017 quali lap for comparative purposes. The lap time was about 8 tenths faster despite having less power and using harder tyres; track conditions were also probably better which may explain just some of the deficit.
There's also a comparative video head to head with the 2018 lap. But true the condition were worse but still in Q1 Hamilton and Vettel were like 3-4 tenths quicker than 2017 Q1, Verstappen was bit slower. But anyway still.

Dipesh1995
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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ALO_Power wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:59 pm
Dipesh1995 wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-BzHE19mpo

Here's the 2017 quali lap for comparative purposes. The lap time was about 8 tenths faster despite having less power and using harder tyres; track conditions were also probably better which may explain just some of the deficit.
There's also a comparative video head to head with the 2018 lap. But true the condition were worse but still in Q1 Hamilton and Vettel were like 3-4 tenths quicker than 2017 Q1, Verstappen was bit slower. But anyway still.
Yep, here it is.


PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Just shows that despite all the naysayers - the chassis was decent last year, just as many said - and also how flawed this years is, it's visibly worse behaved even from an onboard.

Also shows there's nothing going with the "too short" gears rumour too....

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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PhillipM wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:58 pm
Just shows that despite all the naysayers - the chassis was decent last year, just as many said - and also how flawed this years is, it's visibly worse behaved even from an onboard.

Also shows there's nothing going with the "too short" gears rumour too....
But it's clear from the onboard that the 8th gear is too short. The car has greater exit speed than last year but it's still 3kph down at the end of the straight despite the engine being more powerful. Almost like it hit a wall. The transmission just doesn't rev anymore. The Renault runs in the mid 320s at the same revs.
Also, almost every time the engine is not at rev lock in 8th, it's faster than last year. Even corner exit speed is better.
Last edited by M840TR on Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

restless
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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PhillipM wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Also shows there's nothing going with the "too short" gears rumour too....
Feel free to point where 2018 lap shows how bad the chassis is.
No point commenting on "good gears"...

PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:53 pm
The Renault runs in the mid 320s at the same revs.
The gearing is almost exactly the same as last year. Which makes sense given it's the same gearbox. Yes, it slightly slower on the end of the straight - that's what happens when the car has more drag, it looks like it hits a brick wall - you can see part of the reason right there, there's a halo for air to flow around and the car is heavier.

Of course corner exit speeds are better, the tyres are softer and they have more power! #-o
That and you can see the renault holds onto it's power for more of the lap - you can see coming up to Spoon just how much more the Renault keeps accelerating compared to the Honda. You can also see there he carries more speed into the corner and through the apex regardless of the slower approach speed.

You can also see how much better last years car turns in even on harder tyres, and how much less Alonso has to work the wheel - he's smoother in last years car, even with less tyre grip.

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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?

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F1NAC
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Hm. Could be but not by much. Inlets for ERS cooling and gerbox oil are small enough. Its more about cooling system inside car.

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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PhillipM wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:36 am
M840TR wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:53 pm
The Renault runs in the mid 320s at the same revs.
The gearing is almost exactly the same as last year. Which makes sense given it's the same gearbox. Yes, it slightly slower on the end of the straight - that's what happens when the car has more drag, it looks like it hits a brick wall - you can see part of the reason right there, there's a halo for air to flow around and the car is heavier.

Of course corner exit speeds are better, the tyres are softer and they have more power! #-o
That and you can see the renault holds onto it's power for more of the lap - you can see coming up to Spoon just how much more the Renault keeps accelerating compared to the Honda. You can also see there he carries more speed into the corner and through the apex regardless of the slower approach speed.

You can also see how much better last years car turns in even on harder tyres, and how much less Alonso has to work the wheel - he's smoother in last years car, even with less tyre grip.
The Redbull runs higher at the same revs too. If it were just aero the car would gradually end up at a slower speed, not suddenly drop at 300.
Track condition were worse this year so it evens out.

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