2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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timbo
timbo
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:14 am

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:35 pm
Also, the racing in the Midfield was ace. We just need to have two races. One with the big three and then one with everyone else. (I know, it wouldn't work due to sponsorship, but I can dream).
I think we need some sort of BoP with regards to TV coverage. No need to show winners if they're cruising. It was not bad this race actually (isn't it one of a few races when it's not FOM providing a picture), but sometimes midfield action is left with too little coverage.

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WaikeCU
14
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Both are stubborn drivers. One just dived into a corner where overtaking isn’t really possible and hopes that the other gives him space. The other doesn’t give space, because he believes he’s ahead, so he determines which line to take. Both drivers compromises their race, because of this.

darkpino
darkpino
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Vettel was not even close to being next to Verstappen on turn in, one night argue if he still had to keep space for Vettel to come by but that would mean keeping the door open.

This and the fact that Vettel would have no problem blasting by on the straight makes it a dumb decisicion to do it like Vettel did. The RBR guys have to overtake in these positions as they don’t stand a chance on the straight. The SF guys don’t, so why gamble? Vettel lost the championship (imo) 3 times this season. No WDC material, at least not now. Hamilton is rising to true Schumacher/Senna levels in my opinion

Edit: Verstappen is only racing for himself. Big champions (Schumacher comes to mind) usually aren’t the likeable guys. What he did to Raikonen was disgusting in my opinion but also the thing which got him the podium at the end of the race. These guys are not there to make friends he... don’t forget that

Wynters
Wynters
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:11 pm
Yet somehow, an accident occurred. Not exactly clean.

This is just another example, of an increasingly long list, of low expected value defensive moves by Verstappen. Verstappen was lucky to get away with no damage, no puncture, and no loss of position.

Likewise, low expected value decision-making on Vettel's behalf as well.
I've got a bet with a mate of mine that 'mature' Verstappen (i.e. Verstappen with points corrected to ignore his more obvious mistakes) will beat Vettel's WDC total (also corrected to remove the impact of Verstappen's mistakes) this year. It's pretty close.

In return, he's got a bet that Kimi will outscore Seb in the last 2/3rds of the season. So far, he's looking pretty good (Seb is lucky that Kimi was forced to retire in Spa).

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:05 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:50 pm
Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:11 pm
Yet somehow, an accident occurred. Not exactly clean.

This is just another example, of an increasingly long list, of low expected value defensive moves by Verstappen. Verstappen was lucky to get away with no damage, no puncture, and no loss of position.

Likewise, low expected value decision-making on Vettel's behalf as well.
I've got a bet with a mate of mine that 'mature' Verstappen (i.e. Verstappen with points corrected to ignore his more obvious mistakes) will beat Vettel's WDC total (also corrected to remove the impact of Verstappen's mistakes) this year. It's pretty close.

In return, he's got a bet that Kimi will outscore Seb in the last 2/3rds of the season. So far, he's looking pretty good (Seb is lucky that Kimi was forced to retire in Spa).
Kimi's been scoring fairly healthily, so I reckon he has an outside chance at earning some money!

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
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Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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My last post ended up behind posts that were made before it. Strange.

Wynters
Wynters
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:56 pm
Wynters wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:50 pm
Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:11 pm
Yet somehow, an accident occurred. Not exactly clean.

This is just another example, of an increasingly long list, of low expected value defensive moves by Verstappen. Verstappen was lucky to get away with no damage, no puncture, and no loss of position.

Likewise, low expected value decision-making on Vettel's behalf as well.
I've got a bet with a mate of mine that 'mature' Verstappen (i.e. Verstappen with points corrected to ignore his more obvious mistakes) will beat Vettel's WDC total (also corrected to remove the impact of Verstappen's mistakes) this year. It's pretty close.

In return, he's got a bet that Kimi will outscore Seb in the last 2/3rds of the season. So far, he's looking pretty good (Seb is lucky that Kimi was forced to retire in Spa).
Kimi's been scoring fairly healthily, so I reckon he has an outside chance at earning some money!
That's very much my worry :lol:

Ringleheim
Ringleheim
9
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:02 am

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Vettel! Again this guy throws it all away in a moment of panic and poor judgment.

As I just asked in the Alonso "Retirement" thread....is it too late to can Vettel's ass and sign up Freddy for next year?

I genuinely believe Alonso would outscore Vettel next year in identical Ferraris. Further, Alonso brings so much more to his game than just being a fast driver. He would give Hamilton a much tougher title fight.

Arrivabene needs to get on the phone with his old colleagues at P.M. and convince them to pony up the cash to buy out Vettel's contract...then sign Freddy immediately, before he commits to something stupid, like a season driving Indycars.

An Alonso/LeClerc 1-2 at Ferrari is a much more potent combination than Vettel/Kimi.

For sure.

Get it done Maranello!

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
12
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Alonso is 37.

tranquility2k4
tranquility2k4
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Ringleheim wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 pm
Vettel! Again this guy throws it all away in a moment of panic and poor judgment.

As I just asked in the Alonso "Retirement" thread....is it too late to can Vettel's ass and sign up Freddy for next year?

I genuinely believe Alonso would outscore Vettel next year in identical Ferraris. Further, Alonso brings so much more to his game than just being a fast driver. He would give Hamilton a much tougher title fight.

Arrivabene needs to get on the phone with his old colleagues at P.M. and convince them to pony up the cash to buy out Vettel's contract...then sign Freddy immediately, before he commits to something stupid, like a season driving Indycars.

An Alonso/LeClerc 1-2 at Ferrari is a much more potent combination than Vettel/Kimi.

For sure.

Get it done Maranello!
I have to say to me it's a no brainer for Ferrari to appoint Fernando. I felt as such after last year and now there has been two years in a row where Vettel's quite significant mistakes have partially cost Ferrari a chance of a championship. Whilst Hamilton is in the form he's in, unless someone else has a much superior car, Fernando is probably the only one who can fight with him season-long. Maybe Verstappen could too, however, I still don't know how Max would fair in a championship battle as he would have to change his approach significantly, he has far too many incidents, regardless of whether he thinks it's his fault or not.

I did wonder whether Seb may have decided he would retire at the end of the season regardless of whether he wins a championship or not, given Leclerc is coming too. Maybe this is why Fernando hasn't announced anything yet - he must have considered the fact Ferrari may come for him. It would just be the most awesome thing ever to have Hamilton going up against Alonso again.

Jolle
Jolle
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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tranquility2k4 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:07 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 pm
Vettel! Again this guy throws it all away in a moment of panic and poor judgment.

As I just asked in the Alonso "Retirement" thread....is it too late to can Vettel's ass and sign up Freddy for next year?

I genuinely believe Alonso would outscore Vettel next year in identical Ferraris. Further, Alonso brings so much more to his game than just being a fast driver. He would give Hamilton a much tougher title fight.

Arrivabene needs to get on the phone with his old colleagues at P.M. and convince them to pony up the cash to buy out Vettel's contract...then sign Freddy immediately, before he commits to something stupid, like a season driving Indycars.

An Alonso/LeClerc 1-2 at Ferrari is a much more potent combination than Vettel/Kimi.

For sure.

Get it done Maranello!
I have to say to me it's a no brainer for Ferrari to appoint Fernando. I felt as such after last year and now there has been two years in a row where Vettel's quite significant mistakes have partially cost Ferrari a chance of a championship. Whilst Hamilton is in the form he's in, unless someone else has a much superior car, Fernando is probably the only one who can fight with him season-long. Maybe Verstappen could too, however, I still don't know how Max would fair in a championship battle as he would have to change his approach significantly, he has far too many incidents, regardless of whether he thinks it's his fault or not.

I did wonder whether Seb may have decided he would retire at the end of the season regardless of whether he wins a championship or not, given Leclerc is coming too. Maybe this is why Fernando hasn't announced anything yet - he must have considered the fact Ferrari may come for him. It would just be the most awesome thing ever to have Hamilton going up against Alonso again.
You want to put Alonso in exactly the same position he was in 2007? Next to the teams young protege...

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
558
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Ringleheim wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:28 pm

As I just asked in the Alonso "Retirement" thread....is it too late to can Vettel's ass and sign up Freddy for next year?
Dump a 4x WDC for a 2x WDC? Why not, stranger things have happened.
An Alonso/LeClerc 1-2 at Ferrari is a much more potent combination than Vettel/Kimi.
Alonso would remember 2007 and demand the most watertight "Number One Driver Status" (tm) contract in existence... :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
1
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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What is this talk about "overtaking is not possible in that corner" thing. It is very very very possible as long as you are not trying to pass the entitled "driver". Verstappen starts a school fight and then blames the others when the teacher comes. lol.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
558
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Spoon is only an overtake opportunity against a driver who is either willing to be overtaken - a back marker, for example - or a driver in a car that is significantly slower. Neither case applied in the Seb/Max incident.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Edax
Edax
40
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:53 pm
Spoon is only an overtake opportunity against a driver who is either willing to be overtaken - a back marker, for example - or a driver in a car that is significantly slower. Neither case applied in the Seb/Max incident.
True, but even then. Look at the overtake of Vettel on Grosjean, that was more or less a friendly pass due to the Haas-Ferrari relation. But even here Grosjean lost the car on the outside of Vettel and had to hop the kerb inbetween Spoon I and II. There not a lot of racing line to share between two cars.