new single seater for just woman

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Maritimer
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by Maritimer » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:23 am

strad wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:09 am
Boy ... I can show you a long, in fact very long list of male drivers that were never very good but had long careers.
Yep, most drivers with long careers would be on it no doubt

DiogoBrand
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by DiogoBrand » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 am

I can't wait until the feminists start complaining "Female drivers get paid far less than male drivers to do the same job" while completely disregarding viewership and sponsorship numbers.

marmer
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by marmer » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:53 am

hollus wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:12 pm
I'll just leave this here:

http://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/2018/Ri ... 0+Champion
First female world champion crowned at Magny-Cours


At just 21 years of age, Ana Carrasco (DS Junior Team) has made history in the FIM Supersport 300 World Championship as she secured the world title in the final race of the season at Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours. Becoming the first female to secure a world title, her performance this season has been nothing short of stunning, and it will be one that won’t be forgotten in a while...
Well done but not exactly relevant for F1 as it still doesn't change the fact that no one woman has come in the top 3 in a season of f3 (gp3) or f2 (gp2)

Fulcrum
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by Fulcrum » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:51 am

Yes, it's also worth mentioning that SBK WorldSSP300 isn't exactly the pond with the biggest fish in it.

She had previously competed in Moto3 for 3 years, scoring points in only 2 events of 46 she contested.

More pertinently, in her first year, she was the teammate of Maverick Vinales. She scored 9 points, Vinales 323. Vinales wasn't in his first year of Moto3, it was his second, but he won the championship that year.

In 2014 she scored 0 points, as did her teammate.
In 2015 she scored 0 points. She had quite a few teammates; those who participated for several events scored points, apart from one rider.

I'm not trying to diminish her achievement, but WorldSSP300 is the 3rd division of the 2nd tier of professional motorbike racing. Races are typically only 50-55km, or 20-22 minutes in duration; that translates to roughly half the race distance and duration of a typical Moto3 race.

She's done really well to win, break the glass ceiling, whatever, but its a qualified success.

With respect to this idea, I'd be willing to give it a chance. If it facilitates more women appearing in the wider domain of racing, competing on merit with their peers, then great. If there is enough interest and funding for it to prove self-sustaining, then that's all that ultimately matters to the owners.

NathanOlder
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:06 am

DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 am
I can't wait until the feminists start complaining "Female drivers get paid far less than male drivers to do the same job" while completely disregarding viewership and sponsorship numbers.
Yeah, reminds me of the womens tennis, when they were complaining about the prize money not being as big as the mens tennis at the same events. I'd guess only playing 2/3 sets in a final instead of 3/5 being part of it.
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Jolle
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by Jolle » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:06 am
DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 am
I can't wait until the feminists start complaining "Female drivers get paid far less than male drivers to do the same job" while completely disregarding viewership and sponsorship numbers.
Yeah, reminds me of the womens tennis, when they were complaining about the prize money not being as big as the mens tennis at the same events. I'd guess only playing 2/3 sets in a final instead of 3/5 being part of it.
In tennis the match is a bit shorter indeed. But it's very hard to find a sport, industry, job, etc, where woman earn at least the same as men. Of course there are exceptions but in general the pay gap is very real. And yes, women have babies, work part time, etc etc. But even the ones that don't and building their careers on the same terms as their male counterparts, earn less.
Years ago I worked for a bureau who (also) did studies in this field. As a test I took a female dominated industry, childcare. Female directors, female HR staff, 90% female staf: and still, the men, doing the same work as the women, same education, same hours, same everything, earned about 15% more on average then the women.

NathanOlder
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by NathanOlder » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:17 am

Just a thought on women in motorsport. If a woman can compete at the top level and not be restricted by their strength and physical endurance, then it comes down to skill. If I look at a couple of sports that need pretty much 0 strength and fitness (Snooker, Pool, Darts) then the women should be able to compete at the very top. Yet there are no women currently anywhere near the top in these sports. The only reason it can be is down the that last couple of % in skill/ability. So this could very well be the same in motorsport ?

Darts as an example, I dont think a female has ever averaged over 100 in a match, in mens darts if you average under 100, you get your @$$ beat quite badly, with the record average of 122+ (I think)
GoLandoGo
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Fulcrum
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by Fulcrum » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:43 am

Probably like a few other well researched areas of gendered performance differentials, the male cohort exhibits greater variance, even though the populations share roughly similar means.

Fulcrum
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by Fulcrum » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:43 am

Jolle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:06 am
DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 am
I can't wait until the feminists start complaining "Female drivers get paid far less than male drivers to do the same job" while completely disregarding viewership and sponsorship numbers.
Yeah, reminds me of the womens tennis, when they were complaining about the prize money not being as big as the mens tennis at the same events. I'd guess only playing 2/3 sets in a final instead of 3/5 being part of it.
In tennis the match is a bit shorter indeed. But it's very hard to find a sport, industry, job, etc, where woman earn at least the same as men. Of course there are exceptions but in general the pay gap is very real. And yes, women have babies, work part time, etc etc. But even the ones that don't and building their careers on the same terms as their male counterparts, earn less.
Years ago I worked for a bureau who (also) did studies in this field. As a test I took a female dominated industry, childcare. Female directors, female HR staff, 90% female staf: and still, the men, doing the same work as the women, same education, same hours, same everything, earned about 15% more on average then the women.
Modelling.

Its not that hard to find pay differentials in favour of women. Assuming these articles have merit anyway.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-27/w ... ns/9700162
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/gend ... ?r=US&IR=T

langwadt
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by langwadt » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:51 am

notsofast wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:42 pm
I wonder if the situation is similar to science education. Girls and boys participate (and perform) more or less equally at a young age. At a certain age, this changes, for reasons that are still being researched. That age is not 18. It's more like 10 or 12. That's why I'm thinking that targeting 18-year-olds is not the correct approach. Some of the girls with talent will have already moved on to other things.
testosterone isn't only about strength it is also promotes being aggressive and risk-taking

marmer
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by marmer » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:15 pm

Also men have been proven as part of the extra risk taking to be better at making important decisions quickly and have on general level better spacial awareness.

So perhaps these factors combined hurt a womans chance. If very few are able to judge space and make snap decision when overtaking for example. They are more likely to look fairly average or bad.

Didn't wolf have quite a few accidents in DTM

DiogoBrand
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by DiogoBrand » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:00 pm

Jolle wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:06 am
DiogoBrand wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 am
I can't wait until the feminists start complaining "Female drivers get paid far less than male drivers to do the same job" while completely disregarding viewership and sponsorship numbers.
Yeah, reminds me of the womens tennis, when they were complaining about the prize money not being as big as the mens tennis at the same events. I'd guess only playing 2/3 sets in a final instead of 3/5 being part of it.
In tennis the match is a bit shorter indeed. But it's very hard to find a sport, industry, job, etc, where woman earn at least the same as men. Of course there are exceptions but in general the pay gap is very real. And yes, women have babies, work part time, etc etc. But even the ones that don't and building their careers on the same terms as their male counterparts, earn less.
Years ago I worked for a bureau who (also) did studies in this field. As a test I took a female dominated industry, childcare. Female directors, female HR staff, 90% female staf: and still, the men, doing the same work as the women, same education, same hours, same everything, earned about 15% more on average then the women.
Jordan Peterson explains the 'pay gap' really well. There's no denying that there is a bit of male privilege, but also women are way more agreeable, they tend to choose their professions based on what they like, as opposed to men, who tend to choose careers they like less but pay more, and a few other factors.

When it comes to sport, it's all about the public. When there are millions of people willing to watch the competition and even pay expensive tickets, the athletes will be better paid, when the opposite happens, they'll be paid less. In the majority of sports, men get more interest than women, which is why they usually get bigger salaries. When you force equal prizes in tennis, for example, where women play shorter games and get less viewership, that's a bigger injustice than the pay gap itself.

FrukostScones
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by FrukostScones » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:14 pm

I actually think there will be one day a female F1 driver, but as lot of women racers (Ellen Lohr),etc. say they don't need an all female series for this. More more less it is hurting them true racers girls cause. True racer girls want the real deal. There will always be women attracted to machines and competition as history has shown, but as there are much more boys trying it is much less chance that a woman with the needed skills will be in a Position to Probe. Sadly Gina Schumacher has chosen horse riding insteas of racing competetion. At least she became WC. But in an F1 that would have been something. Maybe this Japanese wonder girl can conquer F1 one day.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

RZS10
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by RZS10 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:24 pm

Will be interesting to see how much slower the women will be than all the kids in F3 given that they'll drive the same cars ...

Regarding Carrasco, Fulcrum said it all, it's a --- tier series she won with 93 points, those wouldn't have been good enough for the top three last year (even adjusted for one race less this year) ... in the final race her main opponent was on pole and DNF'd due to technical issues (would have easily won the championship otherwise), P3 overall was overtaken in the last corner and lost the championship right there ... and the Kawa was a vastly superior bike until it got BOP'd, that's how she scored the majority of her points early in the season and once the bike was equal to everyone elses she was trash ... lmao

langwadt
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Re: new single seater for just woman

Post by langwadt » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:32 pm

RZS10 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:24 pm
Will be interesting to see how much slower the women will be than all the kids in F3 given that they'll drive the same cars ...
There is no way they are going to use a car that make it possible directly compare times