Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gandharva
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:23 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:58 am
Maybe you would prefer if they don´t change anything and accept their poor position...
Well, admitting their bad position would at least be a start. But it's pretty much just hot air again. Renault are pissed off because they lost RBR as a valuable customer and now the usual game starts again. They should rather take real money into their hands and get dynos and factories in shape.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Andres125sx » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:38 pm

I´d say changing the whole PU again to close the gap as they say theirselves is admitting their bad position, wouldn´t you?

gandharva
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:37 pm

No, because as I already said, it's business as usual. All manufacturers will have new engines next year. Just like every year before. As long as we do not hear something like "we will increase dyno capacity" or "we'll throw more money and men at it", Renault in my opinion is not admitting anything. Imho, they'll muddle on just like the years before and fall back further and further.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gshevlin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:42 pm

It is clear that Renault needed to do something. They have been standing still while Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda have been adding more power. The C spec powerplant version was one that Renault did not want to use themselves because they could not make it reliable enough. Which tends to confirm that the current engine specification and configuration is reaching its limits.
However, a major issue that Renault is wrestling with, according to Joe Saward, is that they do not have enough top-flight engineers, because they have trouble convincing talented engineers from the UK or Italy to move to France. Honda is an island, not really buying in expertise from anywhere for any period of time. So if Renault wants to improve its engineering staff, they have to convince Mercedes HPE or Ferrari staff to move to Viry-Chatillon.

Walkman
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Walkman » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:19 pm

gshevlin wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:42 pm
It is clear that Renault needed to do something. They have been standing still while Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda have been adding more power. The C spec powerplant version was one that Renault did not want to use themselves because they could not make it reliable enough. Which tends to confirm that the current engine specification and configuration is reaching its limits.
However, a major issue that Renault is wrestling with, according to Joe Saward, is that they do not have enough top-flight engineers, because they have trouble convincing talented engineers from the UK or Italy to move to France. Honda is an island, not really buying in expertise from anywhere for any period of time. So if Renault wants to improve its engineering staff, they have to convince Mercedes HPE or Ferrari staff to move to Viry-Chatillon.
IMO the problem is also mioney linked. Engineers salaries in France really suck. I don't think they can match Ferrari or Mercedes offerings. At least not with their current guidelines and strict budget.

gshevlin
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gshevlin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:29 pm

IMO the problem is also money linked. Engineers salaries in France really suck. I don't think they can match Ferrari or Mercedes offerings. At least not with their current guidelines and strict budget.
Which leads me to suspect that Renault, like Ford before them, is trying to do Formula 1 on a fixed budget. That never works. Most of the last 10 years of their time in F1, Ford were a day late and many dollars short on doing stuff. THere was a lot of doubt about whether Renault would even sign up to the current engine formula, despite the formula having being changed from a 4 to 6 cylinder to accomodate them. (the story of the F1 meeting where Ron Dennis used a string of Bad Words to tell everybody to give Renault the money is telling. Somebody was trying to nickel-and-dime Renault in negotiations).

Bill
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:16 pm

Renault major problem is their measly budget,nobody prior to 2014 or 07 when regulation came out has ever built a powerunit they are a lot experimentations going on . When Honda was having some problems U.K. media said it was because they were not based in U.K. overlooking all of their past history in motorsport the same can be said about Ferrari, to me it sounds like tribalism or worst. Renault has some help from infinity on ers the past

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Andres125sx » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:10 am

I read pretty bold assumptions in this thread, some people think without even knowing the resources Renault use, they know they´re doing it wrong...

This is F1, if you´re the third that´s far from meaning you´re useless, only that you´re not the very best in the world, something F1 fans usually forget

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mclarensenna » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:06 am

2014 was the first year of the new engines and renault had major reliability issues well down on power as well.
2015 Renault made the engine even less reliable with engines blowing up every race with no power increase all year.
2016 Mario Illien came onboard. Race 1 extra 50 horsepower, Monaco another 35 horsepower, then singapore another 15 horsepower. And the reliability was pure perfection and faultless. Not 1 issue all year while adding an incredible 100 horsepower in 2016.
2017 Renault part ways with Mario Illien as they say they can do it better.The engine is back to being a hand grenade in reliability with non stop issues all year and hardly any power gains whatsoever.
2018 Unreliability strikes again with so many issues and minimal power gains, with the power gap growing to the competitor engines instead of shrinking.

It seems the 2016 Mario Illien year, made more power gains than all 5 years combined. Not to mention he built a 100% bullet proof reliable engine the only year we saw this from renault in the hybrid era.

My question is why in the world did they get rid of the Mario Illien partnership based on his INCREDIBLE RESULTS in 2016 ???

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:25 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:10 am
I read pretty bold assumptions in this thread, some people think without even knowing the resources Renault use, they know they´re doing it wrong...
What?

Cyril admitted several times in the past that Renault is spending less money than competitors.
For example here: https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

Here we have Max commenting on that topic. -> "much bigger"
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13883 ... an-renault

Just search the net. You will find plenty of this articles.

We all know that spending less money then others in F1 means nothing else but falling back. And this is exactly what we have seen this year. Renault engine is now slowest on the grid.

noname
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by noname » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:14 am

gshevlin wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:42 pm
(...) The C spec powerplant version was one that Renault did not want to use themselves because they could not make it reliable enough. Which tends to confirm that the current engine specification and configuration is reaching its limits. (...)
That does not have to be the case. Their PU unit may be far from its limit, real problem could be execution sucks.
Of course, it is possible they came across some hard to remove limitations but, as they switched to "new engine" just 2 years ago, this would indicate there was something really wrong with their base concept.

To me it looks like Renault believes they can find silver bullet allowing them to close the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari.
And I am afraid this strategy will not work. It is all about sh...t load of small little things you have to put together. It is about how fast you can generate, evaluate and implement ideas. RSF1 of today is not able to work as fast and efficiently as front-runners, and I am tempted to say their budget is a big part of an answer why.

ringo
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ringo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:54 pm

Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:06 am
2014 was the first year of the new engines and renault had major reliability issues well down on power as well.
2015 Renault made the engine even less reliable with engines blowing up every race with no power increase all year.
2016 Mario Illien came onboard. Race 1 extra 50 horsepower, Monaco another 35 horsepower, then singapore another 15 horsepower. And the reliability was pure perfection and faultless. Not 1 issue all year while adding an incredible 100 horsepower in 2016.
2017 Renault part ways with Mario Illien as they say they can do it better.The engine is back to being a hand grenade in reliability with non stop issues all year and hardly any power gains whatsoever.
2018 Unreliability strikes again with so many issues and minimal power gains, with the power gap growing to the competitor engines instead of shrinking.

It seems the 2016 Mario Illien year, made more power gains than all 5 years combined. Not to mention he built a 100% bullet proof reliable engine the only year we saw this from renault in the hybrid era.

My question is why in the world did they get rid of the Mario Illien partnership based on his INCREDIBLE RESULTS in 2016 ???
Very sensational history you have there. How true are these claims you have made about the Renault Engine?
2018 hasn't been bad at all for Renault, apart from Redbull shoehorning the unit into their seashell sized car.
Also i don't think there is a strong link with Illien and the power and progress of Renault.
For Sure!!

carisi2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by carisi2k » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:19 pm

ringo wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:54 pm
Very sensational history you have there. How true are these claims you have made about the Renault Engine?
2018 hasn't been bad at all for Renault, apart from Redbull shoehorning the unit into their seashell sized car.
Also i don't think there is a strong link with Illien and the power and progress of Renault.
not a sensational history at all. It is actually quite accurate. The Red Bull isn't a seashell sized car either. certainly it isn't mercedes are ferrari big but it is bigger then Mclaren and specifically in wheelbase. Red Bull have 5 years of Renault power unit knowledge and so they should know a thing or 2 about packaging the Renault PU. All this bullshit about Red Bulls packaging is ridiculous and it is coming from Renault die hards who want to put --- on Red Bull the same way that Mclaren is being crapped on now because of Honda's progress.


If Renault want to win at any point in the future then they are going to have to push their car in the RB14 direction.

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:11 pm

gandharva wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:25 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:10 am
I read pretty bold assumptions in this thread, some people think without even knowing the resources Renault use, they know they´re doing it wrong...
What?

Cyril admitted several times in the past that Renault is spending less money than competitors.
For example here: https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

Here we have Max commenting on that topic. -> "much bigger"
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13883 ... an-renault

Just search the net. You will find plenty of this articles.

We all know that spending less money then others in F1 means nothing else but falling back. And this is exactly what we have seen this year. Renault engine is now slowest on the grid.
"spending less money" has a strong relationship to "the resources Renault use"
je suis charlie

Blackout
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:38 pm

Sometimes I think Renault spends all of its meager ressources on the intake plenum every year. They completely change its design every season (and the part is getting wierder and wierder every year), while the Ferrari, the Merc and even the Honda evolve more smoothely :P
A different view of the 2018 spec:
Image