2019 performance speculation

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marmer
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2019 performance speculation

Post by marmer » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:12 am

Looking forward to next year thought we should have a topic for speculation around the direction teams are going in and who could move up or down in performance.


To start with I think Williams have a good opportunity to move back up the grid. They have a stable power train and general reliability. New aero gives them real chance to fix the errors they had this year and the simpler front wings might allow them to go back to the low drag concept they had at the start of the V6 era which worked for them.

KeiKo403
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by KeiKo403 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:26 am

It will be interesting to see how the Red Bull goes, or should I say how the Honda PU performs in a Newey car.

Joseph Hudson
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Joseph Hudson » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:45 am

Right Now my running order predctions
1. Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3.Red Bull
4.Renault
5. Force India
6. Haas
7. Sauber
8.Toro Rosso
9. Maclern
10.Williams

marmer
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by marmer » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:52 am

Joseph Hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:45 am
Right Now my running order predctions
1. Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3.Red Bull
4.Renault
5. Force India
6. Haas
7. Sauber
8.Toro Rosso
9. Maclern
10.Williams
Didn't know the pushchair /pram manufacturers where joining F1 😂

zac510
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by zac510 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:07 am

Can't we at least wait until we see a picture of the car before we make completely clueless guesses?

NathanOlder
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Location: Kent

Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by NathanOlder » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:14 am

marmer wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:52 am
Joseph Hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:45 am
Right Now my running order predctions
1. Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3.Red Bull
4.Renault
5. Force India
6. Haas
7. Sauber
8.Toro Rosso
9. Maclern
10.Williams
Didn't know the pushchair /pram manufacturers where joining F1 😂
Didn't know Maclern made pushchairs/prams 😂 . Maclaren do that though :lol:
GoLandoGo
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by NathanOlder » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:16 am

As for the pecking order, Since Red Bull announced the Honda deal, how well have Honda actually done ? They have thrown new PU after new PU at the Toro Rosso's and they have done nothing spectacular, are Honda really in front of Renault like Marko and Co are saying ?

Edit, So Toro Rosso had 7 races with Honda before Red Bull announced the deal to go to Honda themselves

In the first 7 races they scored 19pts. Then the Red Bull deal was done, and Toro Rosso scored 14pts in 14 races! SO that tells me Honda haven't made the progress expected ? Surely if they learned a lot from say the first 14 races , they would have had a spike in performance towards the end ?
In the last 8 races Toro Rosso scored 3 points and had 4 retirements. In the last 8 races for Williams, they scored 3pts with 0 retirements.
Last edited by NathanOlder on Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
GoLandoGo
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Tzk
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Tzk » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:22 am

They threw those tons of PUs at Toro Rosso to speed up development for 2019. Basically install a PU, test it, introduce next upgrade (for more perf or reliability). The TR results were sacrificed for a better start in 2019. RB/TR guys should know how powerful the Spec3 Renault and the Honda are, having run them both 2018. So i'd believe them that the Honda is actually more powerful in qualy. Question is about fuel consumption/efficiency, because this limits your available power in the race. Remeber McLaren having to save a lot of fuel and thus turning the Honda down to make it to the finishline.

NathanOlder
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Location: Kent

Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by NathanOlder » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:25 am

Tzk wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:22 am
They threw those tons of PUs at Toro Rosso to speed up development for 2019. Basically install a PU, test it, introduce next upgrade (for more perf or reliability). The TR results were sacrificed for a better start in 2019. RB/TR guys should know how powerful the Spec3 Renault and the Honda are, having run them both 2018. So i'd believe them that the Honda is actually more powerful in qualy. Question is about fuel consumption/efficiency, because this limits your available power in the race. Remeber McLaren having to save a lot of fuel and thus turning the Honda down to make it to the finishline.
Yeah so at the end of the year, with fresh upgraded PU's, they must have been flying, yet..... they weren't. Up against the rest with tired old spec PU's as well.
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Tzk
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Tzk » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:29 am

Yes, but i guess that the TR aero/chassis is inferior to other cars like Renault, FI, Haas and Sauber. Remember P6+P7 in Suzuka? Somehow they managed to pull that off...

Will be interesting to see the difference between TR and RB next year. I expect it to be huge.

hudnut
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by hudnut » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:52 am

I don't think we have any idea what Honda will have next season.

They've basically been able to use TR as a test bed in GP conditions for most of the season.

They could have been trying all sorts of ideas at various times, and designed an absolute monster with the data they've gathered. Or, what they've been putting in the car is the best they've got.

I know Marko and Horner seem to be saying they've seen the figures and it's all good, but I don't trust either of them to tell me the correct time. Marko especially. I don't read any "story" where a Marko comment/interview is the source.

However, I know I'll be pretty happy regardless of how well anybody does next year:

Mercedes - I like both HAM and BOT.
Ferrari - Come on! It's Ferrari!
Red Bull - Will GAS yield for VER? Can VER keep his nose clean? I want redemption for Honda.
Renault - DAN! And how will he and Hulk compare? I want Hulk on the podium.
Force India - Please stay alive. The grid needs you.
Haas - I'd like to see a US owned team on the podium.
Sauber - Go Kimi! Be allowed to race.
TR - More Honda redemption.
Maclaren and Willams - How the mighty have fallen. A good showing from these long time contributors to F1 can only be a good thing.

I suppose I like an underdog, and just REALLY like racing and the people who make it possible for me to watch. :)

gandharva
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by gandharva » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:52 am

Tzk wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:29 am
Will be interesting to see the difference between TR and RB next year. I expect it to be huge.
TR will have some more parts on the car from their mothership next year, but the loss of James Key hit them hard on the chassis side and in terms of racecraft. Difference will for sure be huge.

Even if RedBull will have to use 10 engines per car next year, I expect them to easily secure P3 in constructors.

My prediction is the top 3 will be even more ahead next year as they have been this year.

hudnut
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by hudnut » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:55 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:25 am
Tzk wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:22 am
They threw those tons of PUs at Toro Rosso to speed up development for 2019. Basically install a PU, test it, introduce next upgrade (for more perf or reliability). The TR results were sacrificed for a better start in 2019. RB/TR guys should know how powerful the Spec3 Renault and the Honda are, having run them both 2018. So i'd believe them that the Honda is actually more powerful in qualy. Question is about fuel consumption/efficiency, because this limits your available power in the race. Remeber McLaren having to save a lot of fuel and thus turning the Honda down to make it to the finishline.
Yeah so at the end of the year, with fresh upgraded PU's, they must have been flying, yet..... they weren't. Up against the rest with tired old spec PU's as well.
Could be only trying different components while trying not to start at the back of the grid *every* race.

Phil
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Phil » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:02 pm

If the talk by Helmut is anything to go by, as a competitor of RB, i’d be frightened. Even with the lacking Renault engine (although RB have been using fresher engines vs Mercedes/Ferrari), their general and tire performance in races has been extremely impressive. Assuming the Honda is at the very least slightly better would already bring them quite a bit closer.

The only doubts i have over Honda is if they can deliver on the reliability front and how well their performance stacks up during the race in regards to fuel economy/efficiency.

I could well imagine Redbull-Honda being a force to reckoned with - winning GPs on speed. The question will be if they can sustain that performance across an entire season and how many reliabilty set backs will they endure?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Diesel
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Re: 2019 performance speculation

Post by Diesel » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:21 pm

McLaren said similar things about Honda at the start, I'm not convinced, it didn't look great in the Torro Rosso this year. Let's not forget, Renault isn't standing still, the Spec C engine is a significant upgrade in power, they just need to sort the delivery issues, and they may even turn up next year with a Spec D/E with even more improvements.
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP