2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

[dans79]

Maybe it should be a rule on Any serious F1 forum, no use of words like petulant, throw toy out of pram, princess, child, delusional, aluminium hat, moron, idiot, stupid, mad, retarded etc. Etc. All those wording that only serves to strike out at the person you are digitally conversing with or are describing. As soon as you use them the argument should be considered lost.

no one said you personally were petulant , it was used to describe a driver.

The rest of this forum is very good, I learn stuff on a daily basis here but these race thread often make me feel miserable, and Yes, I do feel it is the intention of Some of these Posts, to make others feel miserable.

why do you let something someone said about someone other than you, your family, or your friends make you feel miserable. I could understand if you said irritated, angry, annoyed etc, but not miserable.

[Sieper]

Well, perhaps not indeed, but really, that is the effect it has on me. Perhaps I am a bit to passionate, too much of a fan (and I normally never am a real fan) most other sport/sporters I just Casually enjoy but not so with Max’ adventures in F1. But I think by now most users on this forum will know your standpoint on Max attitude. maybe just for my sake (and possibly Some other readers) maybe not stress it so much with these grand statements. You are of course free to do as you like, but just considder it If you will. If it is really a discussion you want on Any specific topic, anything you noticed you are much more likely to get an actual reply on the topic If worded with a little consideration. I am also open to change my standpoint when I learn of good arguments. And especially people who dislike/ are at least not a fan sometimes have the fairest critique were I also learn something new, see other side of the medal, but If I constantly have to plough through the petulant little child etc. Etc. That only serves me to get upset and not take Any valid message packed behind that into consideration.

[LM10]

Well, perhaps not indeed, but really, that is the effect it has on me. Perhaps I am a bit to passionate, too much of a fan (and I normally never am a real fan) most other sport/sporters I just Casually enjoy but not so with Max’ adventures in F1. But I think by now most users on this forum will know your standpoint on Max attitude. maybe just for my sake (and possibly Some other readers) maybe not stress it so much with these grand statements. You are of course free to do as you like, but just considder it If you will. If it is really a discussion you want on Any specific topic, anything you noticed you are much more likely to get an actual reply on the topic If worded with a little consideration. I am also open to change my standpoint when I learn of good arguments. And especially people who dislike/ are at least not a fan sometimes have the fairest critique were I also learn something new, see other side of the medal, but If I constantly have to plough through the petulant little child etc. Etc. That only serves me to get upset and not take Any valid message packed behind that into consideration.

I don't know what you're so upset about, to be honest. I think it's not really offensive to tell that Max has been and still is petulant. It rather is the objective truth, if we analyze his behaviour for most of the time.
Vettel, for example, has also been kind of petulant for many years. I think most of the drivers had such a phase in their career. The thing is that you need to grow and learn from such things. And by looking at Max, there still is no sign of his behaviour to change. Not a big problem at all, but then him and his fans should not get upset when others tell their opinion.

[Singapore2008]

You state, quite firmly, that:

It rather is the objective truth

but it is just your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

[NathanOlder]

But its an opinion shared by a large majority. Its clear to see when you see him out of the car.

[ringo]

Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.

Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Pretty much. If one takes a step back and realize that in 2007 a rookie went against the reigning champion and would have been champion were it not for a gearbox glitch, they would appreciate the relevance of 2007 to F1. Hamilton 2007 i believe displayed a level of talent and race craft we have yet to see in any rookie since, and even before. That year is not to be underestimated. It's one of the great seasons in Formula 1 history, and it was a gearbox's glitch away from turning the sport on its head.
Max is good, maybe a young Vettel on steroids in a redbull good, but is not comparable to Hamilton 2007 in anyway. Not saying that to start a driver comparison, but more as a refresh of what took place that year. Max has never been in the same situation, and probably would have not be able to handle it, given his current level of entitlement and immaturity. I haven't even mentioned the beast of a teammate that is Alonso in his prime in all of this much less. A real stretch indeed.

[NathanOlder]

Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.

Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Pretty much. If one takes a step back and realize that in 2007 a rookie went against the reigning champion and would have been champion were it not for a gearbox glitch, they would appreciate the relevance of 2007 to F1. Hamilton 2007 i believe displayed a level of talent and race craft we have yet to see in any rookie since, and even before. That year is not to be underestimated. It's one of the great seasons in Formula 1 history, and it was a gearbox's glitch away from turning the sport on its head.
Max is good, maybe a young Vettel on steroids in a redbull good, but is not comparable to Hamilton 2007 in anyway. Not saying that to start a driver comparison, but more as a refresh of what took place that year. Max has never been in the same situation, and probably would have not be able to handle it, given his current level of entitlement and immaturity. I haven't even mentioned the beast of a teammate that is Alonso in his prime in all of this much less. A real stretch indeed.

100% agree

Imagine how Max would have reacted to the mind games Alonso was playing in 2007 (rightfully so, anything for an advantage) Max would have imploded!

[Andres125sx]

Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.

Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Pretty much. If one takes a step back and realize that in 2007 a rookie went against the reigning champion and would have been champion were it not for a gearbox glitch, they would appreciate the relevance of 2007 to F1. Hamilton 2007 i believe displayed a level of talent and race craft we have yet to see in any rookie since, and even before. That year is not to be underestimated. It's one of the great seasons in Formula 1 history, and it was a gearbox's glitch away from turning the sport on its head.

And several mistakes from Lewis, don´t skip that

But his perfomance was awesome for a rookie, I agree, even when he received all the support from his team while his team mate had to fight against his own team... "we don´t fight Kimi, we fight Fernando", that said by the team principal is just an scandal of epic proportions, but it´s ignored around here for whatever reason...

Just to be clear, I´m angry with McLaren and will always be because they robbed us from an awesome intra-team battle for several years just to favour their protege (or Dennis protege to be more precise). I am a Hamilton fan since 2006 when he did an asthonishing season in GP2 and, as an Alonso fan, was eager to see the battle, but McLaren had planned the title for the british rookie since day 1, wich would have been a marketing bomb (so I can´t criticize them too hard). But instead of allowing a fair fight even if 2007 was for Alonso, they were in a hurry to see Lewis as a champ, and ruined one of the best driver lineup in F1 history, IMHO the only one wich can rival with Senna-Prost

I know Alonso could have done many things differently, but he also did accept equal treatment with a rookie since day one, the alternating priority for the pitstops is self-explanatory. How many Champions in F1 history did accept equal treatment with a rookie? I don´t think this is very common, but some people still say he was demanding #1 status from day one and that was the problem.... well, as the current WDC and teammate of a rookie he had the right to do that, but didn´t do it. Fact.

[Just_a_fan]

Just to be clear, I´m angry with McLaren and will always be because they robbed us from an awesome intra-team battle for several years just to favour their protege (or Dennis protege to be more precise).

Just to be clear, Alonso threatened the team principal and attempted to blackmail the team in to giving
him what he wanted. From that moment on, Alonso was on his own.

[NathanOlder]

Just to be clear, I´m angry with McLaren and will always be because they robbed us from an awesome intra-team battle for several years just to favour their protege (or Dennis protege to be more precise).

Just to be clear, Alonso threatened the team principal and attempted to blackmail the team in to giving
him what he wanted. From that moment on, Alonso was on his own.

Exactly, 'Give me number 1 status and an easy run to the title, or I tell the FIA about some secrets'
Ron did the right thing, won the title the following year and Fernando went his own way.

[foxmulder_ms]

Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.

Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Pretty much. If one takes a step back and realize that in 2007 a rookie went against the reigning champion and would have been champion were it not for a gearbox glitch, they would appreciate the relevance of 2007 to F1. Hamilton 2007 i believe displayed a level of talent and race craft we have yet to see in any rookie since, and even before. That year is not to be underestimated. It's one of the great seasons in Formula 1 history, and it was a gearbox's glitch away from turning the sport on its head.
Max is good, maybe a young Vettel on steroids in a redbull good, but is not comparable to Hamilton 2007 in anyway. Not saying that to start a driver comparison, but more as a refresh of what took place that year. Max has never been in the same situation, and probably would have not be able to handle it, given his current level of entitlement and immaturity. I haven't even mentioned the beast of a teammate that is Alonso in his prime in all of this much less. A real stretch indeed.

Agree, 2007 is a great yard stick for comparison.

[TwanV]

Yawn are you guys serious? I'm not saying he's a bad driver and he delivered (still.. China..) but it's all so construed. Hamilton was groomed for years, was a lot older than Verstappen and had the fastest car on the grid. No comparison possible with other drivers that didn't follow the same path..

What bothers me the most after 2018.. Bottas was simply better in the first races but had ricciardoesque bad luck, then Mercedes went for Hamilton all of the sudden. If he's so almost supernaturally special as you claim why did he need a wingman?

[NathanOlder]

Because when you have a Ferrari that's a more complete car, with a driver like Vettel who has a wingman, you need a wingman yourself.
Thats obvious isn't it ?

Schumacher had a wingman in every season he won the title. Are you suggesting he's not as good as his record suggests ?

[TwanV]

Sorry nathan, that's another one of those hero constructs from Mercedes and the British press. Just like when their car always seems to be of the brink of breaking down after they win a race.. Mercedes had the best car more than half of the races this year, period. And it's plain to see vettel didn't have the advantage Hamilton had this year wingmanwise.

[Andres125sx]

Just to be clear, I´m angry with McLaren and will always be because they robbed us from an awesome intra-team battle for several years just to favour their protege (or Dennis protege to be more precise).

Just to be clear, Alonso threatened the team principal and attempted to blackmail the team in to giving
him what he wanted. From that moment on, Alonso was on his own.

Exactly, 'Give me number 1 status and an easy run to the title, or I tell the FIA about some secrets'
Ron did the right thing, won the title the following year and Fernando went his own way.

Just in case you didn´t notice... Alonso accepted equal treatment with a rookie despite being the current WDC. The rotation on the best strategy between the two drivers in first half of the season is an unquestionable evidence, even if some people tend to ignore this fact.

Then we could argue about if a team spying a competitor is responsibility of one of the drivers, but I find it a bit absurd so you can continue blaming the messenger if you will